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  1. #1
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Lightbulb DynaVap IH-drive fix

    Salutations,

    Tired of conductive heat solutions??

    Think KISS design and look again:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Egzoset's LAVAGen2 IH-Driven Heat Convertor concept (2019-Mar-28) [700x480] .PNG 
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    [ https:// i.postimg.cc/bwXqk20c/Egzoset-s-idea-of-some-IH-Driven-Heat-Convertor-2019-Mar-28-7.png ]

    [ http:// oi63.tinypic.com/14y4uma.jpg ]


    Just imagine a spiral trench carved on the outer surface of that metal tube, with a CCD Screen on the far left side, in the middle of a path to the SiC puck...

    It may work with the Loto labs Evoke/Lux too and even better with a Dr. Dabber Switch i predict.

    Good day, have fun!!
    http://www.jango.com/profiles/44436821

  2. #2
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Lightbulb

    UPDATE:




    So... It's about time i think of completing my modest contribution finally!


    Apparently some 3rd-party ready-made commercially-available IH-drivers have been found to share a same common symptom - and still do: unstable gates in power stages can cause forbiden conditions as a "shot-thru" lockup, which occurs because "ringing" is allowed to take place by design, willing to circumvent the problem using a temporary fix (eventually turned permanent...) while leaving its cause in place for some obscure motives still eluding me at the moment. It may seem acceptable for those ready to trade reliability in exchange for portability but i find that's a far stretch in A.C. powered units nonetheless. As a matter of fact it's not recent at all, a couple hours of Google Search will confirm this was even a popular topic before 2010, when alternatives to the over-simplified Mazilli/Royer oscillator started to appear, by the way. Consequently, although it's fine to get an exploratory phase there are crucial lessons to retain from those who walked the path and made such precious legacy openly accessible to posterity, for example:





    Please pay special attention to the dates!


    So, the technology has evolved and the guys wanting to melt metal tried their best to tweek it to perfection, while others got obviously stalled making circles around the Maxilli modules ever since - for years literally. Eventually the cannabis vaporists should find solid IH-driver solutions on the market by now, instead we have legacies awaiting to be re-discovered despite general indifference! One of those old posts causing me to day-dream in particular:



    [ http:// inductionheatertutorial.com/inductionheater/induction7.html ]
    Induction Heater Tutorial - 10kw and 3kw

    « Now, we are ready to talk about the phase locked loop chip - the HEF4046. After this discussion, we will have enough information to understand the workings of the inverter and how it maintains a lock on the resonance. »



    Apparently one magic "KeyWord" is PLL:



    [ https:// www.google.com/search?q=PLL+ZVS+%22Quasi-Resonant%22+%22Induction+Heat%22&tbm=isch ]
    Google Images: PLL ZVS "Quasi-Resonant" "Induction Heat"


    Then boom! Something viable to chew on at last (this is my edited version of it...):





    Actually i think it also inspired others:



    [ https:// highvoltageforum.net/index.php?topic=116.msg724#msg724 ]
    Adventures in induction heating (2017-Aug-24)



    It might feel excessive to go into further details except to argue that similar effort to address a decade-old problem comes with rewards denied to paying customers who didn't get all the explanations it seems...

    In any case if PLL + ZVS is the remedy then i'll have to use it ultimately, the sooner the better i shall add!


    ...


    Good day, have fun!!
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    http://www.jango.com/profiles/44436821

  3. #3
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Lightbulb

    More update:




    Using some "magic" keywords i eventually obtained from Google that it shows me something which might at least partly fit the "mystery box" in my previous post:




    According to its corresponding schematic and the next one below it's quite possible and apparently even convenient to take full advantage of a "555" type of timer which is integrated right onto the IR2153/IRS2153 chip itself:



    [ https:// www.elettroamici.org/en/uso-ed-abuso-del-ir2153/ ]
    Use and misuse of the IR2153 for feeders up to 1.5KW


    A few tricks may actually pave the way to some stabilisation loop and why not a PLL one, just as previously suggested i figure! Etc., etc...

    Suffice to say there's a lot more stuff which occured past the popular Mazzilli module, since over a decade ago.

    Good day, have fun!!
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  4. #4
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Lightbulb

    Getting closer...






    Either one wants to risk verify that the Mazzilli topology will end up destroying its power stage (unless it's corrected, if possible...), eventually, either one drops it altogether after paying due attention to "feedback interlock" problem(s) reported by multiple sources. For example:


    [ https:// forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/induction-heater-by-mosfet-irfn-260.163638/page-2#post-1440650]
    Induction heater by MOSFET IRFN 260 (2019-Oct-6)


    [ https:// docplayer.net/26964431-High-voltage-resonant-self-tracking-current-fed-converter-a-thesis-presented-to-the-faculty-of-california-polytechnic-state-university.html]




    High voltage resonant self-tracking current-fed converter (2010-Mar), p52/152...


    Briefly put just get rid of Mazzilli's cross-connected diodes and consider preparing to adopt dedicated Gate Drivers instead:





    Better yet, pave the way to a PLL setup by separating the opto-couplers so these simultaneously provide "Interlock" safety on top of phase/frequency signaling, either for a 4046 or perhaps even synthetic (Linux) Software Defined Radio... In any case i'm done dealing with ghosts in a machine!

    Good day, have fun!!
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  5. #5
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Cool

    Time for an update!



    Hear the news!! Or at least what i learned yesterday and that sure ain't coming to my attention as soon as i'd have wished, nor expected:

    Lots of stuff from the Tesla Coil guys (& friends) started to arrive via Asia, but not only!

    Please check more closely this other fine item actually conceived & produced in the United Kingdom:


    And in that case that's not even a 1st version, shown below:



    { External power "choke" (toroïd) and "tank" capacitors not included. }

    ...

    Well, it may come late but here's finally my teaser reporting it anyway:

    It's real small (5 cm x 5 cm), so tiny it might even fit in my HerbalAire v2.1, though with some external PSU attached to be honest. Some mention is made about obtaining a ~240 W output using 24 Vdc @ 10 A, with maximums close to 20 A(cont.) or 70 A(peak), which implies the addition of a Heatsink, a cooling fan and/or even a water pump + radiator (for heavy-duty water-cooled workcoils!)... An optional potentiometer & push-button extension module is available, even an OLED display module, external sensors, etc. Thermostatic regulation is performed in 1 second cycles, with 4 levels to choose from: 25%, 50%, 75% and 100%. Access to frequency is provided besides automated management of Zero-Voltage Switching, Under-Voltage, Over-Voltage, Over-Vurrent, Over-Heating and also for being unable to "resonate" - plus error codes. Hence i can safely bet such module fairly implements TRUE "ZVS" as well, contrary to dirty-cheap Mazzilli-topology modules from Amazon/e-Bay, wherever.



    Now i know and so do you.



    Good day, have fun!!
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  6. #6
    Data Nazi Lightly_Toasted's Avatar

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    Default

    Awesome man! glad to see you still contributing!!!

    LT

  7. #7
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Salutations Lightly Toasted,

    Quote Originally Posted by Lightly_Toasted View Post
    Awesome man! glad to see you still contributing!!!
    It sure was a pleasant surprise for me too and now i'm wondering if the community of IH vaporists shouldn't try to influence future revisions...

    What's particularily nice with such news is that we can expect alternatives promoting even more convenient "semi-DiY" experimentation, made fairly accessible to the masses or so, e.g. with most of the frustration from electronics tweaking already dealt with, at least in principle.

    Yet our needs can be very specific. For example, considering the announced topic i find my statement of July 8 has put emphasis on circuit disruptions (from parasitic RF "ringing" related to power device leads inductance combined to their associated internal gate capacitances) while actually there was an opportunity to highlight a potentially beneficial type of ringing as well: e.g. in my personal opinion, when "loaded" by a DynaVap VapCap, the field variations inside such LC resonator are going to reflect "sympathic" susceptor vibrations as this is mechanically linked to some bimetal type of "clicker" intended to signal completion of the pre-heating phase (once a designer-set temperature "ceiling" has been reached). Briefly put, just add a magnet to finally obtain one vague approximation of a dynamic transducer behaving both as a microphone and a speaker, or most likely a rudimentary version of it anyway! That means IH output level injection then can be controlled/metered auto-magically without even a display or a button to worry about besides the usual power switch, with all functions passing through DynaVap's hand-held delivery wand.



    At the moment i doubt RMCybernetics's CRO-SM2 mini "Induction Heater" can be programmed to "listen" at DynaVap's clicker-induced feedback signal but who knows what their next release will accomplish if only some relevant guidance could be provided to this company (and/or competitors) by daily IH dynavap tokers as ourselves - hence a need to spread the news.

    Good day, have fun!!
    http://www.jango.com/profiles/44436821

  8. #8
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Some more details:




    Looking closer at it through my crystal ball i perceived 3 main features as most easily identifyable. Pointed by my green arrow the i2C bus supports an optional OLED display, in blue a pair of opto-couplers labelled as "A" and "B" implement galvanic isolation, while in purple this seems to be some brute-force/dummy dual Gates Driver probably WITHOUT interlock circuitry: e.g. protective functions actually appear to reside in the (lower-left) IC4 controller itself (using a feedback fraction of the loading signal present across the large "R010" resistor).

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  9. #9
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Lightbulb

    Fun game proposal!!




    { Scratch 'n Sniff! }

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  10. #10
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Announcement!



    Salutations,

    It's about the DynaTec (DynaVap) Orion:

    Quote Originally Posted by Egzoset View Post
    Better late than never, m'well it's only the begining of a prolific era anyway - this time a real/solid one i hope!



    Good day, have fun!!
    Last edited by Egzoset; 4 Weeks Ago at 02:18 PM.
    http://www.jango.com/profiles/44436821

  11. #11
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Lightbulb

    Salutations,

    Well as a premise lets spontaneously acknowledge the most evident fact that DynaVap's VapCap just ain't structured like this at all:

    Quote Originally Posted by Egzoset View Post


    Yet if i'm ever going to experiment with Induction Heat then my early driver requirements shall begin with reliability and compatibility/versatility in mind, because there's quite a few ideas left to validate (so i'd rather avoid electronics tweaking as a distraction), for example:


    This dates back to November 2010 when i got inspired by the Vaponic (formerly called the VapBong) which was mainly built from concentric glass tubing joined together using some clever silicone part to actually define both its fresh-air inlet and cannabic paths; the spiral element was meant to reflect my preliminary intuition that although it seemed almost "perfect" such glass wand could still get further improved, including by making it somewhat shorter, as i should add in retrospective...



    So, having to accomodate very different layouts as in my "Plan-B" (via a flux-concentrating stub "plunger" inserted inside its Flame-Catcher Aperture) and/or some modified VapBong glass purists system besides the DynaVap vaporizer it's clear at least to me the IH driver must manage with a wide range of workloads, and since Induction Heating relies either on magnetic hysteresis losses (expected to better support Curie-effect features) and/or "Eddy Currents" (for which a higher frequency works best) i've recently come to conclude dual-frequency scenarios would constitute a major asset on my way to compatibility + versatility...

    The only one viable layout i could envision (other than my previous hypothetically-refurbished stepper stator scenario) got inspired by an ancient Greece invention rediscovered in the 17th century:


    What's particularily great about it is that 2 mechanical systems can share a same pivotal point and keep their relative independence. Next that's being transposed into a clamshell layout where the internal faces of 2 identical magnetic paths can inter-penetrate each other at a 90 degrees angle, with their far flux return paths oriented outside to enclose this whole assembly:


    It's sort of a transparent view suggesting the 4 poles are aligned with a susceptor eventually placed into my IH Aperture, at the center. Dimensions are evaluated as 5 x 5 x 1 cm, which compares favourably with legacy cigarette packs i think:




    Initially my IH-driven LAVA concept called for 3-Phase 9-Poles as illustrated below; appreciate the fruits of my reflexion's evolution between 2010 and 2018, then 2018 vs today (...):


    Briefly put the shielding box went ~28 % larger on the sides but i gain some 3-fold thickness trimming that invites portable applications and it's still too premature to tell how far such transformation will go exactly!



    Good day, have fun!!
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    Last edited by Egzoset; 2 Weeks Ago at 02:41 PM. Reason: Fighting broken on-line parsing engine...
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  12. #12
    Seedling Egzoset's Avatar

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    Cool

    So...

    At 1st i vaguely contemplated the conceiving of an IH Driver circuit made of "discrete" MOSFET power devices, then found out there's at least 1 ready-made commercially-available offer that sounds about right. Then after noticing the power ratings of Class-D chips for HiFi "Digital-Audio" my search results slowly but surely paved the way to this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Egzoset View Post
    As i recall the reseller even dared put "Digital Multimeter" in his "Induction Heater" advertizing title... Although it feels ODD i'm still perceiving some potentially-valid convergence in this coïncidence which made me even more curious actually. From now on it's no longer a problem of power density except perhaps some components of the circuitry can't get too close to an IH WorkCoils Assembly just as that next one i drawn below, to compare with RMCybernetic's performance in terms of PCBoard space:


    Texas Instruments claims their TPA3255 chip is rated 300 + 300 Watts if Hard-Wired in "MONO" mode. That means in my top example a set of 4 chips would support 4 x { 300 + 300 } = 2.4 Kilo-Watts, or if both sides of the PCBoard get populated similarily then it shall amount to 8 chips, e.g. 8 x { 300 + 300 } = 4.8 Kilo-Watts... With the coming Gallium Nitride frenzy that's only going to improve, consequently it's safe to assume there are more pressing concerns to prioritize on the to-do list than maximum power ratings.

    In comparison a pair of TDA7498 chips would already offer 400 Watts overall:


    ...which even despite a mediocre conversion efficiency of, say, 20 % (...) would still result in the IH Energy Injection of ~80 Watts. And since the TDA7498 is also featured with lots of protection this may help cut down on PCBoard surface at the cost of some little sacrifice of its power safety margin. Yet the TPA3255 can stand a 2 Ohms workload @ 600 Watts, with additional short-circuit protection if i'm not mistaking!

    Trade-offs again. This time it's about size vs toughness i think, then desired features like galvanic isolation via BlueTooth will follow if that's an option, etc.

    It all relies on a simple proposal that the magnetic line forces can be bent cardan-style just by using flux-concentrating material (as the Fluxtrol paste, for example), eventually turning a cardan-shaped pair of slotted toroïds into some universal IH WorkCoils Assembly yet to be validated with further experimentation - and i'm most confident there's quite a lot to play with, like dual-band/dual-resonators exploration, etc.

    Good day, have fun!!
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    Last edited by Egzoset; 1 Week Ago at 02:53 PM.
    http://www.jango.com/profiles/44436821

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