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  1. #1
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    Default Hydro/Aero by a neophyte

    I've decided to test my hand @ some different growing techniques.
    I've gathered my materials and I'm planning to put 20 (3" net pots /w covers and back filled/w hydroton) plants (SOG) into a 95L tote.
    I was recommended a 3/4 inch manifold(in a figure 8) with 20-24 (360 degree) sprayers and a minimum 600GPH pump. I am using 45 degree couplings as opposed to 90 degree for better pressure.
    I have also added one of those fancy aero air stones and pump.
    The tote is solid black and t he lid is reinforced, I plan to add support pillars inside the tote ( as a precaution, although the lid is heavy duty and ribbed/pleated).

    Being, admittedly, a novice to this type of equipment, I was wondering if there's anyone that can comment on any additional features or conveniences that I may be overlooking as a first timer.

    I'll post pics when I put all of this together, but Im going to wait a couple of days to wait on replies before construction and pictures.

    P.S. I already have a RODI and brand new Hortilux bulbs, and am not asking about nutrients, but rather equipment.

    cheers,

    /MNT
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  2. #2
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Hey MT
    On my first dwc grow I used a community system...6 plants in one reservoir, which I will not do again as the roots of all plants become one large mass. Should one plant go south the rotting roots put and end to all good things. To support the lid in a community I place a measured piece of 3" drain pipe in the center to act as a load bearing column for the lid.
    For a water level gauge I use a piece of 2" pipe which goes through lid to bottom of res. This should have holes in btm to allow water to fill the pipe. Place a float inside pipe with a rod on top. Make a top for the pipe with a hole for the rod. As the water level changes the float rises and falls and you can mark the levels on the rod. No $$$ necessary just used left over parts from my nft system. I'm a DIY guy so I always try to improvise...much greater satisfaction when you're successful.

    You can integrate both into one pipe which supports load and acts as a water level gauge.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  3. #3
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    See, that is the sort of thoughtful assistance I was counting on from the folks at treatingyourself.
    Thanks Nohibition
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  4. #4
    Couchfaced T's Avatar

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    I'd might cut a T and valve into the piping system slightly above nute level in the res and just have it recirculate, keeps things well mixed and oxygenated, although your misting also so that may do the same thing.
    I always grew 3 plants together in a res and found that it wasn't really a big problem root wise, Nohib's right though, there is noway to separate the root once they get big but I found usually if I lost a plant it was when they were small and the great big freaking root ball isn't formed yet.

  5. #5
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    I agree with T&G re: losing plants early. I erred on the side of caution. I still like to keep my plants separated for convenience. I can move them around, or cut one early etc. Another concern was males popping up once they're in flower, if you have to cut it down the roots remain so you have to rely on preflowering in veg. It's a matter of preference and most of you guys are light years ahead of me. I'm looking forward to seeing your results MT. I'm just going back to DWC now so there's lots to relearn.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  6. #6
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Another trick I used in the reservoir of my NFT system was to install a bulk head and isolate the pump. This stops roots from getting into your intake. The bulkhead does not have to be too high because the growing tips are usually near the bottom of the res. Worked well, once installed the problem was eliminated however watch your water level.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  7. #7
    Couchfaced T's Avatar

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    I'm with you nohib, I think we have similar grow styles, I'm a re-purposer too, saves a ton of money in the long run too some of the guys here are light years ahead 4sure lol I was a KISS student but its all what works for you, good point @males, I never thought about males, never had to as I always used my own clones.
    be well

  8. #8
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    I'm really fortunate in regard to the pump. I dished out the cash and bought a proper hydro one from the store. It has a very impressive filter screen for just such an occurance (I hope).

    My thoughts on sharing the tub were mainly because the plants are going Straight into bloom and I'm going to growing the same strain from a single mother(per 20 plant tote), so I should be 100%, at the same time, if I wanted to cull a plant, I would find it very very very annoying if I couldn't harvest the root mass... that's definitely a concern that is starting to nag at me. The problem with the recirc DWC is that I live and grow at the top of my house and can't afford any hose fiascos, of which every dwc grower has at least 1 unkind story. Although I do have 4X8 I am using as a spill tray, that won't protect me if the hose is spraying around. Many things to consider, keep it coming folks.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  9. #9
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    In my dwc each bucket is isolated, I don't recirculate. New food every 5 to 17 days depending.
    Tons and tons of air. I fill a clean bucket with nutes and simply lift plant/root ball out of one bucket and drop it into the other. Great for flushing. In your case it would be a hell of a lot of work if you had to do all your girls the same day. I never have more than a dozen plants in flower. I would guess that not all plants would need to be done same day, some may be hungrier than others. I usually only go dwc once a year when its's hard to find soil but I've seen some very impressive results from growers who go the mile so I'm considering dwc full time.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  10. #10
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Another point that interested me was the growing number of people who are harvesting roots for medical use. Thought I could mess around with that this year as well. I also want to try revegging a dwc plant after harvest.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  11. #11
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    Yep, my old way is the complete opposite of this, veg a plant for 4-5 weeks and put a 13top plant into bloom with a tomato basket and a few prayers for good luck and speed.

    It's been hell where I work, I work for a software company, but it's just like initec, from the office, and we had a big software upgrade on the weekend. Now my days are filled with questions asking me why we broke the software. lol.

    I wound up putting the unit together except for drilling the holes, it looks good but I could only fit 15 into a 96L tote, and even then they seem cramped, but I do happen to have t here extra HPS lights and m y permit is for 45 so that would work out withi 15 plants per 600W light. I'll try and post some pics soon as I get the holes cut. Some of the totes I was investigating almost seemed to be designed for hydroponic use... or too good to be true.
    feel free to keep suggestions coming.

    On another side note, it's a bummer when you pass out cuts to just about everyone, and it becomes difficult to obtain cuttings back. I always hear this story and used to grin because it just didn't make sense why someone wouldn't share a plant back that you gave to them in friendship... but , hey. So the only clones I can get my hands on are the MKUltra pheno t hat is very bushy and is not SOG appropriate, but I'l give her a run regardless to test thigns out.

    cheers,
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  12. #12
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    Drilling the holes tonight, looks like I'll be doing 12 plants per 95L Tote/600W light with a 1 week veg. Pics to follow of either a broken lid or a new hydro rig with nicely drilled 3 and 5/8" holes
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  13. #13
    Couchfaced T's Avatar

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    cant wait to see pics and bummer about cuts.... if you happen to crack lid it can be repaired, I worked making industrial water treatment systems and we use to make pvc, cpvc etc pressure piping etc by using a hot air-gun for welding plastics but I think similar results could maybe be had with a soldering iron and some patience
    be well
    T

  14. #14
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    I was thinking about using auto body resin to reinforce the structure, but think it could fix a potential crack> hmm?
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  15. #15
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Hey MT
    You really shouldn't have any problem drilling lid if...your hole saw is sharp, running at high rpm and you cut slowly. Make sure your lid is laying in full contact with what ever is under it so the lid doesn't flex while you're cutting. If you crack lid just glue another pc of plastic across crack with a PL construction type glue.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  16. #16
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    oh like how you reinforce a structural beam that's starting to bow. Man is there anything PL Premium can't do?
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  17. #17
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Wonder if it will hold my dentures...lol
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  18. #18
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    lol!

    The 3 and 5/8th's holes cut perfecty with no issues at all, I didn't even have to brace the lid. I tested the rig last night and it worked all night with no malfunctions/leaks.
    I did notice that my continuous TriMeter wasn't reading properly inside the rez (beside the spray manifold). I'll have to figure that one out...
    I'm just finishing up 'light proofing' the lid. It looks like MK Ultra will be the first to run in hydro here..
    Last edited by MidnightToker; 04-06-2014 at 09:26 AM.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  19. #19
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  20. #20
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Nice rig MT. Clean and organized. 12 ladies in the same tub, it's going to get crowded but they're in good hands.
    Looking forward to seeing this all come together.
    Once the snow is gone I'll be cleaning out the dungeon and doing some framing. I have to do a new layout. Can't use tents because the only ones I've found that will fit in my basement are economy models.

    Keep up the good work Bro.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  21. #21
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    The remaining clones will probably be transplanted tomorrow, they have roots but I try and get a good mass before transplanting.

    The next box I build will be for Grape Kush.
    cheers,
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  22. #22
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Looks good MT. I don't remember what strain you put in.
    My Deep Purple Kush are coming along nicely. Roots are nice crispy white. I've had them on the same mix for 7 days, GH 3 part, week 1, 50%, and they seem happy, growing, healthy. They're going into 4 gal on day 21 and I'll up the nutes. I'm going to sneak up slowly with feeding them.
    I put 2 Peak TS in a week behind the DPK, their growth is markedly slower in the exact same set up. Different needs? Or just a difference between sativa dominant and indica dominant, any thoughts?

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  23. #23
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Hey MT I found some better pix of the NFT I built awhile back.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

  24. #24
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    That's a tough call, as long as both plants aren't showing a deficiency then it could simply be the difference between S and I. That being said, the determining factor should be by the start of week 4. I know that's asking a lot. If the TS are savtiva dominant, they are going to do most of their stretch around days 12-21. With the Kush profiles I tend to see the stretch occurring markedly around days 11-17 of bloom. The key factors considering:
    absence of any visible deficiency or abnormal growth,
    adherence to predictable overall growth patterns.

    That being said, I have a question of my own. First of all my advanced nutrients were not PH perfect, nor do they keep my rez PH perfect (when only using their products, CalMag+ and the PH Down needed). I estimate my SOG Box Rez is roughly 30L. Each day I need to add roughly 6 drops of PH DOWN(including the first day I add the AN ). The water is originating @ PH of 7.0 & 90PPM.

    Should I need to be PH treating my water every day? Is it a failure with the nute product? Is the Airstone going to bring up the PH daily that much? There are a number of variables here....
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  25. #25
    Flowering Member nohibition's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightToker View Post
    That's a tough call, as long as both plants aren't showing a deficiency then it could simply be the difference between S and I. That being said, the determining factor should be by the start of week 4. I know that's asking a lot. If the TS are savtiva dominant, they are going to do most of their stretch around days 12-21. With the Kush profiles I tend to see the stretch occurring markedly around days 11-17 of bloom. The key factors considering:
    absence of any visible deficiency or abnormal growth,
    adherence to predictable overall growth patterns.

    That being said, I have a question of my own. First of all my advanced nutrients were not PH perfect, nor do they keep my rez PH perfect (when only using their products, CalMag+ and the PH Down needed). I estimate my SOG Box Rez is roughly 30L. Each day I need to add roughly 6 drops of PH DOWN(including the first day I add the AN ). The water is originating @ PH of 7.0 & 90PPM.

    Should I need to be PH treating my water every day? Is it a failure with the nute product? Is the Airstone going to bring up the PH daily that much? There are a number of variables here....
    OOOOOOOOKKKK. Wow you're so far ahead of me knowledge wise.

    I started growing about 5 yrs ago and basically just filled my needs. Then both Mamma and I ended up on CPP disability. I came back here and now you guys have me reading, asking questions, and trying to learn. So I'm vastly ignorant...but learning.

    When growing in DWC I've always kept my ph in the 5.5-6.0 region with no obvious ph related issues. As for frequency, I checked my ph once a week (I had a meter then),and topped up with clear ph-ed water. However I was never aware of precisely why ph changed. I've always used GH but the enormous plant I've referred to was on AN.
    I honestly do not know if the air stone affects ph. Many think that the bubbles are oxygenating the water directly but having raised freshwater tropical fish I've learned differently. In our case the bubble break the surface tension of the water and release oxygen into the cavity between the lid and the water were it is absorbed. Trial and error sucks when you're growing meds. If you can establish a safe range for your ph you can start low and ph correct before it reaches the high end. I guess in my case ignorance was bliss and I got lucky but in short I ph corrected the water I was adding to 5.5-60 and mixed fresh every 7-10 days providing there where no visible issues. If there where I flushed for 24 hrs and back into nutes.
    Don't know if any of this is of any use but you caused me to stop and think.

    N
    I fall upon the earth, and I am embraced. Water gives me life, and I spring forth into the light. My roots run deep into the earth, and I am nourished. With wind and water, light and earth, I conspire to ease your pain and heal your wounds, to bring you peace and calm your mind, to give you wisdom and truth of heart.
    I return to the earth and I am embraced.I am Cannabis
    Nohibition

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