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  1. #1
    Vegetative Member Snafu's Avatar

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    Default what breeder has the most homogeneous and stable seed stock?

    im curious as to what breeders out there really do the work with their strains before marketing them? i dont see lots of time spent in to stabilization any more and surely dont see much homogeneous seed runs happening.

    so i guess what is the best bet for super stable and quality out there? or is it best just to find some girlies that make my heart skip a beat and learn to build a seed catalog on my own? to begin to work on a stable line (i know if that is the way to go i have a lot to learn about dominate and recessive traits and how they apply to the cannabis world (i understand some about phenos and genotypes but there is much to be said about breeding properly while i do know some i dont believe i have enough info right now to begin, but if that is the consensus then i will begin to find books on the topic and start doing my homework.) also what books does anyone recommend for the breeding (i know there are a great book by DJ short also heard good things about marijuana botany).

    I've heard some say that the best breeders are the guys that run their plants through several generations like Sannie who has several lines that run out to f7 or further. so i am wondering if that is just hype or if these long standing crosses or bx are more homogeneous and stable?


    Im really after a couple of good keeper strains that if i do start just producing my own seeds that they will already be stable and wont have much variations so that i can begin working with and not just enter the arena as a pollen chucker hoping to get lucky i have lots to learn and figure playing with a really stable strain would be a great way to enter breeding so i can keep my seed stock up and have to stop buying, borrowing, or trading and this will also give me a great way to give back to the community through free seeds to those in need as it always awesome to be able to pay it forward.

    hope this made sense and thanks for reading!
    "Don't excuse yourself from life today on the pretense of your past. You're hurt you're broken, that's alright."


    HBMT
    "if it were not for the bad times, the good times would go un-noticed"


    on death and dying!
    "the loss is ours, not theirs, and we can face it as we wish!"

    -Steve & Dana

  2. #2
    Vegetative Member Dr.Valentin's Avatar

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    Shantibaba with Mr.nice is one of these guys
    "The ultimate goal of farming is not the growing of crops, but the cultivation and perfection of human beings."

    -Masanobu Fukuoka -





  3. #3
    420grower
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    personally I am ready to take a road trip,start to look for old school landstrains,local strains ect.,I used to grow a skunk from a local farmer in Pa.So stinky and so damn potent,smoke so thick it made you gag if you held it,lol,anyway bucket list..........peace

  4. #4
    Vegetative Member Snafu's Avatar

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    I like shantibaba but never had his gear I will try and sort some out along with some of the long standing Sannie creations in the future when I'm further ahead in time and money (May be a few Years off into the future).


    I'd really like to get my hands on some black rose and work with it to make some stable beans (black rose x Chernobyl or black rose x something nice from MJ or... the possibilities are endless.)
    "Don't excuse yourself from life today on the pretense of your past. You're hurt you're broken, that's alright."


    HBMT
    "if it were not for the bad times, the good times would go un-noticed"


    on death and dying!
    "the loss is ours, not theirs, and we can face it as we wish!"

    -Steve & Dana

  5. #5
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    If you want to make sure a breeder knows what they are doing, first make sure they can tell the difference between a F1 and BX (1st and backcross).

    Read the description, read the grow reports, read anything published by the breeder, Learn their philosophy.
    The most important thing I have found is authenticity and creditability. Most people claim to have clone only strains but never say exactly where or how they came into possession and take no time to attempt to verify this. People like Bodhi and Shanti give the exact year, breeder, and grower/owner who's been in possession of the plant up-until it got to your hands... instead of crap like, oh this is a cut that's been going around my place... let's take any place... say , MapleRidge. and it's the real deal.

    regards,

    p.s. Shantibaba will not steer your wrong, Rare Dankness and TH Seeds are also very worthy of praise.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  6. #6
    Flowering Member JohnnyMan's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightToker View Post
    If you want to make sure a breeder knows what they are doing, first make sure they can tell the difference between a F1 and BX (1st and backcross).

    Read the description, read the grow reports, read anything published by the breeder, Learn their philosophy.
    The most important thing I have found is authenticity and creditability. Most people claim to have clone only strains but never say exactly where or how they came into possession and take no time to attempt to verify this. People like Bodhi and Shanti give the exact year, breeder, and grower/owner who's been in possession of the plant up-until it got to your hands... instead of crap like, oh this is a cut that's been going around my place... let's take any place... say , MapleRidge. and it's the real deal.

    regards,

    p.s. Shantibaba will not steer your wrong, Rare Dankness and TH Seeds are also very worthy of praise.

    Do I detect I slight amount of bitterness?
    I wish it was bong time

    I'm up to 15 strains, and lovin' it:

    1. Black Diamond OG Kush
    2. Cannatonic
    3. Purple Kush
    4
    . Hippie Headband (2 phenotypes but not sure what to label them)
    5. Skunk Berry (both Skunk and Blueberry phenotypes)
    6. LA Confidential
    7. OG Kush
    8. Rockstar
    9. OG Ghost Train x Haze #1
    10. Sunshine Daydream
    11. Temple
    12. Pure Kush X Uzbek Hash
    13. C99
    14. Purps
    15. Rockstar Kush

  7. #7
    Vegetative Member Snafu's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnnyMan View Post
    Do I detect I slight amount of bitterness?
    i can totally understand his feeling! wasted time and space on something that could have ruined his whole crop this rotation. with nothing more then an insulting reply from the breeder of those genetics :/
    "Don't excuse yourself from life today on the pretense of your past. You're hurt you're broken, that's alright."


    HBMT
    "if it were not for the bad times, the good times would go un-noticed"


    on death and dying!
    "the loss is ours, not theirs, and we can face it as we wish!"

    -Steve & Dana

  8. #8
    Embryo chillum's Avatar

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    Yeah I can uderstand the way you feel too MT, but no need to go bashing med-man over something that wasn't even in his control. There are many environmental conditions that can cause hermaphroditism to occur, but who knows, maybe it was a stability issue. I've had an 11 week crop of bullrider go herm on me in week 8. Felt like such a waste of time. It was only one plant, but left my whole crop seeded throughout. Speaking of which, anyone want any free seeds!? lol
    In med-man's defense, I did get to smell a sample of rockstar kush he had with him at the TY expo, and I 100% guarantee that it's the real deal. It has that unmistakable nose that just screams potency. I ended up purchasing some RSK from him and I'm currently veg'n em out. Another couple weeks under my T12's then I'll set up a scog under my T5. Looking forward to some badass buds!!
    I agree with med-man though, find a keeper Mom or two, then take cuttings before flip'n em. In fact, if I could, I'd just veg out a Mom and take my C-1 cuttings from her to flip. This maintains the Mom's F1 vigour, and allows for a much stronger, healthier plant in the long run. You'd need some room though to keep those big bushy babes alive. Cloning generation after generation seems to be the norm though, and doesn't have too much detrimental effect in the long run. I heard that a good way to maintain vigour is to take a cutting outside in the spring. Just before flower take another cutting and bring it back inside. This practice has the ability to rejuvenate your strain after many generations.

  9. #9
    Embryo chillum's Avatar

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    Hey Snafu, if you're looking for a really stable line of genetics then why not get some seeds off a reputable breeder from Amsterdam. I'm thinking Soma,Serious Seeds, Sensi Seed Bank. These guys have been breeding stable lines for many generations. If you want something solid to start with, I'd suggest them for sure. I'm actually just finnishing up some Magic Bud from Paradise Seeds, and Mendo Madness from THSeeds. The Magic Bud looks identical to the pic I have on my wall, and the Madness is looking pretty sweet too. You can't go wrong with european genes.

  10. #10
    Vegetative Member Snafu's Avatar

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    I really want something really stable and it seems as you climb in filial generations that's what you get and it seems most growers pop out f1's and call it a day.

    And I don't think you are right in your reply to MT chillum as he has plenty of grow diaries to show what good solid genetics can and will do in his setup, unless you are suggesting that MT went out of his way to give med mad a bad name? Yes things vary but have you seen how solid MT's grows look? That's a really nice environment he has and it seems his methods speak for themselves unless of course you are blind or are just really pushing med mad as rock solid and saying med mad wouldn't push untested or genetics that are of poot make up with bum recessive traits that get crazy even in a rock solid environment like MT's...

    Well enoug of that I'm just looking for solid genetics that are in the f4-f10 range so I know when I start playing around it will be a solid stock to play with and not end up with some serious issues that come with f1 generations since you are basically starting with tons of unknowns and a guess as to what's hiding to be found as you work into the f2, f3 generations and I don't have the plant count to run tons of beans to find the best of the best, that's why I hope to get something that doesn't have lots of recessive stuff hiding out and less phenotype variations as well as less genotype variations from generation to generation. Again I'm just looking to find something I have begin breeding with to learn technique and me up with a good usable med after and not worries to much a out kissing the next cure for cancer or the pain holy grail ect.
    "Don't excuse yourself from life today on the pretense of your past. You're hurt you're broken, that's alright."


    HBMT
    "if it were not for the bad times, the good times would go un-noticed"


    on death and dying!
    "the loss is ours, not theirs, and we can face it as we wish!"

    -Steve & Dana

  11. #11
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    I just wanted to add, there were three growers that I met at the expo, that were also identified as growers that I have known and met here over. Three separate individuals sent me messages in the past 2 days about Medman's genetics confirming my own DOCUMENTED experiences. Other people have having problems but, for whatever reasons, they aren't willing to go out on a limb and put that information into the public domain. Although I don't feel the need to vindicate myself, I suspect that with a bit of encouragement these individuals would be willing to come out of the closet, so to speak, and post their own experiences. Most of these are private individuals who prefer to stay low key, and I understand it. The last thing worth mentioning is that I bought my seeds, and I know at least one of those individuals cited about who also purchased them. We got them direct from medman at the expo. There wasn't anyone handling it in-between. These weren't failures from freebies or testers... this is money paid, product failure, zero support from medman (up until 2 days ago) and still no support.

    I've been growing publicly longer than medman has been growing at all (according to his published story in the newspaper from a few months ago). And yet I don't mind coming into criticism. I encourage you to try and throw whatever you can at me, but I'm slippery as fuck, and your shit won't stick.

    Snafu, have you been able to read between the lines and gain your own insights. A lot of people like to consolidate information, very few actually digest the information and apply it as knowledge. I'm sure whatever you pick out will be fine.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  12. #12
    Vegetative Member Snafu's Avatar

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    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to MidnightToker again.

    Thanks MT I'll find something worth playing with in the future right now under are tighter then a string with a 300lb tight rope walker on it.

    I'm just starting my homework to find and decided on something so when I'm ready I'll have a good choice, then I can figure out how to properly make some seeds and then I can branch out and start playing with males or females of other known origins so I can have some variety but I see that in a far off 2 or 3 years off so I don't rush into something and mess up.
    "Don't excuse yourself from life today on the pretense of your past. You're hurt you're broken, that's alright."


    HBMT
    "if it were not for the bad times, the good times would go un-noticed"


    on death and dying!
    "the loss is ours, not theirs, and we can face it as we wish!"

    -Steve & Dana

  13. #13
    Embryo chillum's Avatar

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    Wow.. well people really like to attack each other on here. First off Snafu, I was giving them both the benefit of the doubt by saying it could be either an environmental condition or unstable genes. Why don't you go back and read my first post, I think you might be the blind one buddy. I don't really think med-man needs a guy like me pushing his gear either, he's doing a fine job on his own. I was just saying I got to see the RSK he grows and it looked and smelled awesome. MT was just complaining that it wasn't the real deal, and well I've smoked enough RSK to tell you it most certainly is. I never said it was awesome to grow though, I'll save that judgment for myself. So far I've got three healthy plants all looking to be fems. Oh, and I never doudbted MT's abilities, he's really the only grower I pay attention to on here. I'm an organic guy myself, so MT's biodynamic style of growing is right up my alley. So quit with the attitude and let's try and get along here. I think me and you are alike there Snafu, both looking for stable genes to work with for the long run. Did you even read my other post? I was trying to help out. Peace bro.. chillum

  14. #14
    Vegetative Member Snafu's Avatar

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    I did read and maybe I read it wrongly but I sure did seem that you were bent against MT so if that wasn't your intention then I apologize, I don't get feelings and gestures from the net only your words and no real sustenance to what your intent was. Again I apologize for misunderstanding but it just seems like a small group of people's ride the short tails of med mad so I just guessed with what you posted we were heading there.


    So cheers to a simple misunderstand lets get back to talking good genetics and long term stability!
    "Don't excuse yourself from life today on the pretense of your past. You're hurt you're broken, that's alright."


    HBMT
    "if it were not for the bad times, the good times would go un-noticed"


    on death and dying!
    "the loss is ours, not theirs, and we can face it as we wish!"

    -Steve & Dana

  15. #15
    Embryo chillum's Avatar

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    Hey thanks for the reply Snafu, I know how things can get easily misinterpreted though text, so no worries. I'm sorry if I wasn't so kind with my reply either, I just wanted to make it clear I wasn't taking sides. Cheers

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