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  1. #1
    Vegetative Member Arboles's Avatar

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    Default Copying High Value Genetics?

    What's the general feeling of copying expensive strains, like dr. greenthumb's and other high dollar strains? It seems that some breeders would wanna copy these and offer them at prices average growers can afford. I know Blueberry is available for much less than what DJ's charging. I'm just curious of the general attitude & how the original breeders would feel about others doing this.
    Live and let live.

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    Vegetative Member milkcratejukebox's Avatar

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    well, how would you feel if it happened to you?

    first of all, as a breeder hobbiest, it takes alot of time and work to establish a solid stable strain, so hats off to those who create strains correctly, so they should be acknowledged, but then the greedy fucks start feminizing shit, so ya cant get any males, but lets not go down that feminized debate, we already did that...

    but guys like me who wonder, "what this one would taste like with that one?" we are no threat, i atleast acknowledge the genetics i use, shout out so to speak, but im not sellin those particular crosses. its just fun, but i did come up with Darkness, and that was a odd home run, and i know for a fact 4 seed companies used it for breeding in other projects. i dont care though, but would be nice to get some free seeds, and an "adda boy" for the contribution wouldnt hurt...

    if you want to recreate a strain, go for it, it does take time and certain steps, but if your doin it for "shits and giggles", have fun...im gonna take 7 females and throw a lucky male in the mix this time, dont have the male yet but i know he may be Sweet God, Bun Bun, or LUI, them are the only beans i got crackin at the moment....since im in no hurry to move, im gonna crack some Corleone Kush beans i just got from a friend and see if i can get a male out of that,,,

    you mentioned DJ's Blueberry, if ya take that original Blueberry and if ya can find the original Northern Lights #5, you can get Northern Berry. a real nice strain...easy enough to do ...


    crate

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    Vegetative Member Arboles's Avatar

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    Peakseedsbc has a great Northernberry for $40, plus a free pack for regular customers. I've seen a lotta strains I'd like to have, but the prices are way too high. The way I see it is, if the genetics are available for $150, someone can copy & sell them, & state that it's a similar product for $50. Don't need a male to make S1 fem seed. There's so many excellent breeders that could make duplicates for 1/3 the price.
    Live and let live.

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    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    not everyone does s1 fems or fem hybrids to make cash-
    a lot of them do ...and did yes...
    but you would be amazed as a breeder, how many emails you get asking for fems and when you say you only do reg hybrids that are solid etc etc..they walk away head down-
    lots of folks have very limited plant counts and do not want to take the time and effort to weed through males or waste precious garden space on males -
    so folks, the people, want them produced-

    fems are also strain preservation for clone only strains and the only way to make true clone only hybrids as well-
    usually the most elite genetics are just that..clone only-


    most seed companies now days farm there stock out to underground growers that do the work-
    cali connection, tga you name it-
    dont even produce there stock, hell..barneys farm just imports all there genetics mostly out of spain..lol
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

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    Vegetative Member Arboles's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky View Post
    not everyone does s1 fems or fem hybrids to make cash-
    a lot of them do ...and did yes...
    but you would be amazed as a breeder, how many emails you get asking for fems and when you say you only do reg hybrids that are solid etc etc..they walk away head down-
    lots of folks have very limited plant counts and do not want to take the time and effort to weed through males or waste precious garden space on males -
    so folks, the people, want them produced-

    fems are also strain preservation for clone only strains and the only way to make true clone only hybrids as well-
    usually the most elite genetics are just that..clone only-


    most seed companies now days farm there stock out to underground growers that do the work-
    cali connection, tga you name it-
    dont even produce there stock, hell..barneys farm just imports all there genetics mostly out of spain..lol

    Have you had any dealings with Centennial Seeds? I understand the owner was once in the stock market. I have an old friend in Denver & I'd love to spend some time there working with breeders, and developing an obscure technology to provide inexpensive heat during winter greenhouse grows. I'm caring for my cancer stricken mother, so I can only day dream for now.

    I was given some Skywalker seed, and I understand this was once a clone only strain. I'm curious where the male came from to make the seed I was gifted. It seems elite clone only strains are only good for breeding & for dealers to make lots of money with. I love rooting clones too, and just giving them away, or using them for bonsais. As I continue to read advanced breeding material, I hope to develop a medicinal strain specifically for cancer patients. This may entail trekking for seed in a far away land, or just perfecting existing strains.

    If & when I'm ever in a position to do so, I'd like to copy the most expensive strains to give cash strapped growers an opportunity to enjoy what would normally be out of their reach. I'm with you on the regular seed, a lotta people wanna make their own kind. But I love quality feminized beans too. I hope to try my hand at growing some auto fems in the near future
    Live and let live.

  6. #6
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    Isn't that just a Blueberry crossed to an Afghan again?

    Side Note: Skywalka, Motarebel's version of it, is the only strain ever to appear on COPS that I knew both the strain and breeder of as this spelling was used on the mason jar

    @#$%^ cop arrested the kid for dealing, claiming a jar is "too much for one person".. ever hear of time?
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    Vegetative Member Arboles's Avatar

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    Its difficult to distinguish kushberry from skywalker, but I believe Shad is correct. There's so many similarities in breeding, whether its people, animals or plants.
    Live and let live.

  8. #8
    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by arboles View Post
    Have you had any dealings with Centennial Seeds? I understand the owner was once in the stock market. I have an old friend in Denver & I'd love to spend some time there working with breeders, and developing an obscure technology to provide inexpensive heat during winter greenhouse grows. I'm caring for my cancer stricken mother, so I can only day dream for now.

    I was given some Skywalker seed, and I understand this was once a clone only strain. I'm curious where the male came from to make the seed I was gifted. It seems elite clone only strains are only good for breeding & for dealers to make lots of money with. I love rooting clones too, and just giving them away, or using them for bonsais. As I continue to read advanced breeding material, I hope to develop a medicinal strain specifically for cancer patients. This may entail trekking for seed in a far away land, or just perfecting existing strains.

    If & when I'm ever in a position to do so, I'd like to copy the most expensive strains to give cash strapped growers an opportunity to enjoy what would normally be out of their reach. I'm with you on the regular seed, a lotta people wanna make their own kind. But I love quality feminized beans too. I hope to try my hand at growing some auto fems in the near future


    i actually just got a cut of the skywalker OG to play with so I'll report back on it
    as for its true heritage, no clue, my first adventure with it-

    Centennial Seeds? nope..cant say i have..

    It seems elite clone only strains are only good for breeding & for dealers to make lots of money with.

    well there are a lot of breeders doing the cash out by making clone only fems cough swerve cough..
    aaehem exhuse me, had something in my ass lol

    but any way your right and wrong-
    theres always two sides to every coin right!?

    how a clone only starts is usually 9 out of 10 times..from bag seed! dont let anyone ever tell you any different- og kush, train wreck, bubba kush, la affie, you name it- bag seed!
    mostly afghan genetics from hash plants that get smuggled to the us and canada, 20 years later....its OG kush baby!

    its like shoes-
    nike and generics last about the same time yet one is 10X the price-
    branded-

    now clone only strains are just that cause folks ran the bag seed and killed off the males or ran seed from a particular stock and found a unique pheno-

    i startred fems and s1 making a few years ago for strain preservation on clone only strains-

    it does water the genetics down a hair and doesnt stir the gene pool like true hbrids do so herms are easy to get, crap pheno's or loss in potency , yield sometimes can be found in those fems- but out of 100 seeds you fem or s1 you get about 60-70% of these that are almost identical to the mom-
    its like clones- you can take 100 clones from a mother- veg 3-4 weeks and flower them all and you will see the degeneration or variation among them vs others in the group-

    but for me it was a way to share clone only strains without mailing clones or taking large risks and seeds are viable for 30+ years if stored properly- i can move or even just grow old, look back in my stock in 30 years and pop a few memories

    but reg seed stirs the pool
    although harder to narrow down and stabilize through generations of selections, it often creates a plant or offspring with hybrid vigor- usually better then its parents-
    so ive always released reg stock only-
    plus new growers dont learn squat from fem seeds-
    first time they see a male there like that guy on youtube who jumped out his window smoking salvia- lol bwahaha-

    when i buy stock/if more like it , its rare anymore, i dont shop at the big seed banks, always go directly to the breeder- you going to know what you have in hand plus get it cheaper-
    the tude, single seed etc, like 40% markup- lol
    plus your supporting your locals
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

  9. #9
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    I don't know the story about the guy jumping out the window, but as a relatively early discoverer of Sally I've felt something of an anti-gravity sensation from her, but still had the sense to start from the floor and notice I wasn't moving up at all

    I've been a decade clear of ear infections thanks to her, used to get them twice a year requiring antibiotics and decongestants each time
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    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    lol -
    shad knows boy!
    lol haha-
    its some hair raising shit- more of a shroom fan myself years ago, at least after a while you can really control that stuff-

    lol

    i'll post the vid man- hilarious!
    should of called it...
    first time grower see's male plant in his grow-
    lol
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

  11. #11
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    Hey, what's this stuff?
    IDK, I heard it's some kind of dissociative anesthetic.
    Really? Better use the 300x then.
    It's a bit like saying "You know, I always wanted to try a narcotic, so I went out and got some elephant tranquilizer to see if it gives me the itchies"

    I have two Sally Ds in my kitchen, I just keep the plant alive and growing to ensure that I won't have to put up with congestion again and because due to sensationalism and misuse the place I used to buy leaf from for $8/oz now has criminal penalties up to ten years in prison over the sage. So I found it wise to secure a live plant.

    I had some sample 5X included with an order I never touched it myself but gave it to some salvia hardheads (they feel nothing off plain leaf). Natural leaf can be too strong as it is and 5x is at the bottom end of the extract scale.
    Last edited by Shadimar; 05-05-2013 at 04:02 PM.
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    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    nice!
    ive been getting into peyote growing the last 2 years-
    not much for puffin the sage- just to much for me man- i like to control myself under the influence-
    but i know once my yote is ready- its outerspace time and there is not a thing i can do about it but hold on for the ride!
    lol

    i know it will be very spiritual for sure-
    but i will embrace it -

    the big thing in florida years ago when sal hit the market was the 20x and 30x-
    you could actually go to a flea-market and get it-
    it was insane lol
    now its that spice shit and K2 everywhere
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

  13. #13
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    I find that a tiny piece of leaf, sometimes the size of a finger nail, is all I need to abort an ear infection.

    Before I'd obtained any, the trip reports were interesting in their often adventurous events; explore consciousness and reality with the sage.

    The thing is... it's a lot like dreaming of walking on the moon, and all is roses until you have to strap yourself inside the nose cone of a rocket and realize their is no turning back until the voyage is over.

    Salvinorin-A is much like accessing a lucid to semi-lucid dream state while still awake, and much like how you can be an an odd dream and think nothing out of the ordinary about it, Sally has quite a similar dissociative effect.

    Not being the binge type, I let others try sucking down as much smoke as possible through a bong. The mechanical laughter struck me as ..well..creepy.

    Miracle cure for congestion though, and kappa agonists have shown promise for treating depression, pain, and various substance dependencies

    I'll let Daniel Seibert smoke the Salvnorin crystals though

    From an academic point of view, yes of course I learned how to make crystalline Salvinorin.. but that doesn't mean I'm going to
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    Vegetative Member Arboles's Avatar

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    Wow! I'm 44 & haven't done any tripping since the late 80's. I once saw my girl friend as Jesus; I even asked her before I took off running. I rode a bicycle home & saw small bolts of lightning sparking off the tops of light poles.

    I know a dude that's been saving rare bag seeds from some $25 a gram kush, he might have something special this year, but he's really bad about trying to grow in the trees/shade. I need to visit him soon.
    Live and let live.

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    Fat Girl Expert ROLNIK's Avatar

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    hey,,,, whats ,,,$25 a gram weed,,, doing with seeds in it anyway,,,,? hehee (should come with a cut fer that much,,,, Oh,,, ya,,,) ( er atleast hav'm plucked out,,, ) hehee



    R

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    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    I thought I'd point out, too, that since Sally is a clone-only sage this means all of us, outside of Mexico at least, are growing the same individual plant, genetically speaking (the palatable clone being a sport of the W/H cut from the 1950s).

    As the Shaman guard their Salvia plots like one guards a child it is still not known for sure whether the plant is capable of seeding itself in the wild, or if all stem from the same sterile cuttings.
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    Vegetative Member Arboles's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by ROLNIK View Post
    hey,,,, whats ,,,$25 a gram weed,,, doing with seeds in it anyway,,,,? hehee (should come with a cut fer that much,,,, Oh,,, ya,,,) ( er atleast hav'm plucked out,,, ) hehee



    R
    It's always a supply & demand thing. There's so much compressed Mexican brick weed here, it dominates the market, and very few dealers sell dank. I would say the kush is coming from CO, or CA. He said there's very few seed, lucky if one bean in every other gram he sells. Some of those fools even get $30 a gram.

    In the early 90's we could go through some lbs and find a few buds that were very different. Sometimes we'd get lucky & find some that smelled like chocolate, or skunk & had a great high too. I should've saved some of those seed, probably Oaxaca highland. Now days I don't touch anything, for free or for sale, it's covered in the blood of cartel victims.

  18. #18
    Seedling

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    Default Good for Giggles

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadimar View Post
    Isn't that just a Blueberry crossed to an Afghan again?

    Side Note: Skywalka, Motarebel's version of it, is the only strain ever to appear on COPS that I knew both the strain and breeder of as this spelling was used on the mason jar

    @#$%^ cop arrested the kid for dealing, claiming a jar is "too much for one person".. ever hear of time?
    Ha, I saw that one too. Didn't the cops speculate that the Skywalker could have been a code? I remember them debating about why it said Skywalker on it!

    - - - Updated - - -
    Last edited by TradingBeanz; 10-28-2013 at 02:06 AM. Reason: Double posted it and titled it God for Giggles!

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    Seedling

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    As far as seeds and strains go I think it is entirely dependent on whether you have bought them from a seed bank. If you can make the same seeds I would say go for it. Then again if you are capable you would probably be doing it already. I see no problem with it. If, however, it was a gift I would definitely feel like I would ask the breeder. I can only see benefits, from my perspective. The more seeds that are out there the more diversity, the more phenols that will be discovered and so on. Plants and seeds are to be shared, that is my belief, not to be hoarded. I also think that credit should always be given where it is due. We all know in the pit of our guts what is right and wrong and it is us, ourselves, who ultimately have to decide what is okay for ourselves. I am waiting for some Darkstar seeds and I wish to cross them with Purple Kush, firstly, and then more from there.

  20. #20
    420grower
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    well I will backcross every strain that works for me,I am not a hobbyist breeder,lol,
    I just know if I don't save them,I may never get them again,I will also pass them out to friends,but to make cash from someone elses work,NO,this is about medicine,compassion,and getting the proper medicines to the right people.peace

  21. #21
    Seedling Collie Doctor Mon's Avatar

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    Cool

    When I receive genetics that i haven't worked with before, I usually do a seed run.
    I don't think this harms anyone from a financial perspective and allows me to have more seeds for additional grows.
    I definitely respect most of the quality breeders out there as they put in a lot of hard work and time to stabilize their genetics so they can be sold to consumers in original breeder packs.

    Just my 2 cents, Cdn :-)
    Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights
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  22. #22
    Vegetative Member Arboles's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by TradingBeanz View Post
    As far as seeds and strains go I think it is entirely dependent on whether you have bought them from a seed bank. If you can make the same seeds I would say go for it. Then again if you are capable you would probably be doing it already. I see no problem with it. If, however, it was a gift I would definitely feel like I would ask the breeder. I can only see benefits, from my perspective. The more seeds that are out there the more diversity, the more phenols that will be discovered and so on. Plants and seeds are to be shared, that is my belief, not to be hoarded. I also think that credit should always be given where it is due. We all know in the pit of our guts what is right and wrong and it is us, ourselves, who ultimately have to decide what is okay for ourselves. I am waiting for some Darkstar seeds and I wish to cross them with Purple Kush, firstly, and then more from there.
    I'm curious if any of the purple kush strains available are related to ace seeds & cannabiogen's Pakistani Chitral Kush; Ace recommends and even inspires other grower/breeders to use his PCK as breeding stock; this is a very special 100% indica kush that was inbred from a landrace taken from the Hindu Kush range of the Himalayas. I believe it has 2-3 phenos, the green one being the most potent, but it's not as aesthetically pleasing as the purple, or the pheno with hues of pinks and reds. I read that it is the only indica which will ripen in rainy weather wile resisting bud rot. I acquired a 10 pack several years ago, but a security issue led to their early demise. Nevertheless, I have high hopes to some day cross it with Seedsman seed's Narkush, another lovely indica landrace with lots and lots of power. I know of several landrace strains that are mostly overlooked, and under estimated by the world of cannabis. Ace's Chinese Yunnan is another rare gem which every serious breeder should acquire; it's place of origin is awesome, no other place on earth like it.
    Live and let live.

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