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  1. #1
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    Default Taking the Plunge to LED

    Hello,

    In seeking to improve my harmony with the environment, to increase available space in my grow room, and to further better the quality and safety of my production area, I have decided to switch my 'RnD area' entirely to LED's.

    The previous equipment that has been replaced was a 800CFM osterberg inline fan, X2 600W HPS Eletronic Ballasts & Cool Tubes.

    X2 90W LEDs(remaining).

    Although my air conditioner seems to be getting little to no work (based on my dehumidifier only), I have decided to leave it hooked up and operational.

    The replacement's:
    X2 300W custom 'Medicinal Lighting' units;
    X1 300w LED Grow Light For Indoor Grow Green house Hydroponic System USA Seller(Ebay);

    Total wattage will be (2x300)+(300)+(2x90) = 1080watts start-up, and once operational, a functioning wattage of 820watts.
    Figures for previous are 1380 watts. I cannot estimate the wattage quantity used for cooling that has been mitigated as a result of the new light change, but I use a 12,000 BTU unit that runs 12 hours when the lights are on.

    A bit of info:

    The two 90W units are triband 1W 7:1:1, R:B:G (they are around 3 years old now and are second generation units)

    The Ebay Light:

    Uses high power 3W LED's
    Replaces : 600w+ HPS
    Power.Cons : 200W
    LED's : 3W Epistar
    Lifespan : 50,000hrs+
    spectrum: 660nm red, 630nm red 610orange, 460nm blue 450nm royal blue,UV, WARM WHITE.

    Rivaling the output of 600 Watt Metal Halide & HPS grow lights, the 300W LED consumes 80% less power and provides your plants with the perfect blend of light for all stages of plant growth. Plants grown under the 300W LED produce large, lush leaves and bountiful fruits and flowers. Like all our LED grow lights, the 300W LED emits virtually no heat and does not require additional ballasts, reflectors or cooling equipment. The 300W is a plug and play grow light - it works right out of the box. Whether in a greenhouse or large indoor garden, the 300W will provide ample coverage for a 12 square foot growing area. When used as recommended, the 300W will pay for itself in a little over a year. 300W is the easy and smart choice for today's indoor & greenhouse grower.

    The 'Medicinal Lighting':


    http://www.medicinal-lighting.com/

    (I deal with the manufacturer directly so the information is captured within regular conversation copied and pasted with permission from the mfg):

    "the spectrum- heres what i did to the T-
    red 650-660nm- 42 -3w diodes for peak flowering-
    orange 630nm- 16 - 3w diodes
    dark blue 460nm - 18 - 3w diodes
    Light blue 440nm - 14 - 3w diodes
    warm whit (all spectrum) 8 - 3w diodes
    90 degree lens and 120 degree mixed- true blend "

    https://www.icmag.com/ic/picture.php...ctureid=980406

    " they are made in china and imported to me wholesale-
    there was no sense in taking all the china parts and assembling them here-
    they have a very sterile lab facility- testing grow area etc-
    thats hard to replicate in the states without thousands of dollars and everything they do is non robotic, hands on-real clean-
    so there built really great quality-
    they warranty all parts for 3 years standard to

    "mine use bidgelux and epistar diodes-dual lens types 90 ans 120 degree mixed to blend better

    "the problem with LED is the red diode- the red diodes are about 1/2 the price of a proper blue diode of the same wattage-
    They make up about 75% of all LEDs light spectrum so companies can save cost etc-
    Witch is fine for 70% of all plants most days, but our plant, loves those in-between and warm spectrum colors more then a lot of plants because of its annual growing nature and all the energy it burns through such a short life cycle-
    Its truly unique in that it uses chlorophyll A and B more evenly during the flowering phase , where as most plants tend to favor heavily to one or the other-
    Makes you wonder sometimes if its even from this planet originally-"

    "now my panels are not the UFO style round ones- but a rather large panel-
    i think the exact dimensions where 2.5" thick x 16.5 " long by 8.5" wide-
    almost as big as the glass that goes in my euro 600w reflectors-
    they cover about a 3.5x3.5 area really well- I imagine you could squeak out a 4x4x-
    ive even found ways to vert wall mount them

    but i redesigned the spectrum a little bit more,tweaked it further, looks like the final draft pics didnt show up on the thread-"

    Furthering the Project:

    So I have removed all the insulated hvac compliant ductwork and dismantled the extra eletrical panel and the reflectors/ballasts.
    I'm expecting the lights to deliver today (cleared customs and in my city) and I'll post pictures of the lights once they are on display. I figured there's no point posting pics of me dismantling my room.

    cheers,
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  2. #2
    Shadinated skunk-mad's Avatar

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    i,ll be watching this with great interest as l.e.d,s look possibly the way of the future. I know you said that a 300w l.e.d is 80% more efficient on electricity than a 600w hps/mh/hid how does that work i would have thought a 50% saving?, just curious on what the extra 30% is being used on

    This sound like a great way forward great job

    skunk-mad.
    This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
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  3. #3
    Flowering Member Tweedybird's Avatar

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    I'm very interested in the results of this experiment.
    Hippy dippy organic grower

  4. #4
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    Hey brother, i believe it's similar to magnetic style ballasts, in that the initial draw is 300watts on start-up, but to keep the light functioning only requires 200watts of power consumption according to the manufacturers.
    That's one of the claims that I'm here to prove. I do have a power meter I can hook up, which is a good thought to capture all the variables. (Also loving the fact that I can 'plug and play' this all into 1 power bar with an extension cord).
    Last edited by MidnightToker; 12-31-2012 at 11:05 AM.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  5. #5
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    As an LED owner I expect to see HPS+LED this time next year.
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  6. #6
    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    Well it goes without saying, I'll be subbed to this one

    I feel the overall truth about LED lighting is the fact that not all LED plant lighting are created equal-

    I'll try to add a little light to the reason why a 300w model only burns 180-200w of actual function power-

    A 1w diode cost 1 w of power to illuminate-
    so the first and second gen LEDs that use 1w bridgelux or epistar diodes have to use the same # of diodes to equal wattage-
    Example : a 90w 1st gen UFO has 90 1w diodes on the PCB -
    1 diode per watt-
    These actually burn closer to a full 80-90W of functional power-


    Now days with the next generation of LED we are switching up to high power 3w diodes of the same maker-
    The 3w diode can handle as much as 3w per chipset but only takes around 1.5 - 2 w to actually illuminate-

    A 300w panel has 100 3w diodes..
    The power supplies are then matched to the PCB to only deliver around 1.5 to 2w per diode-
    This increases the lifespan of each LED diode dramatically , cuts power consumption, but does not hurt the overall brightness or penetration-
    a 3w diode burning a full 3w is only a tiny margin brighter then the same diode burning only 1.5-2w
    So for this reason, the internal power supplies are rated and designed to do just this, save power, maximize life span without sacrificing brightness-

    all the other power saved is in heating in cooling which makes upwards of 50% of an entire grows power consumption-

    MT,

    your 12,000 BTU A/C is around 1200 watts on average man-
    you should find the label- look for the amps, this will give you true power draw, just convert the amps into watts-
    My 5,000 btu runs about 450w and its an energy star model, most AC units pull about 1 amp per 1000 btu-
    So your looking at around 1200 watts of daily power savings just off that AC
    Last edited by Big Sky; 12-31-2012 at 12:58 PM.
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

  7. #7
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    wow, that sort of figure would be great. I went out of my way to avoid buying an energy efficient one, back before I was focused on biodynamics I just wanted to get things done.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  8. #8
    Rednamalas
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    my 3 ton ac units 33,000 btu run off a double 30 amp.it states in the manaul it runs at 22 amps


    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky View Post
    Well it goes without saying, I'll be subbed to this one

    I feel the overall truth about LED lighting is the fact that not all LED plant lighting are created equal-

    I'll try to add a little light to the reason why a 300w model only burns 180-200w of actual function power-

    A 1w diode cost 1 w of power to illuminate-
    so the first and second gen LEDs that use 1w bridgelux or epistar diodes have to use the same # of diodes to equal wattage-
    Example : a 90w 1st gen UFO has 90 1w diodes on the PCB -
    1 diode per watt-
    These actually burn closer to a full 80-90W of functional power-


    Now days with the next generation of LED we are switching up to high power 3w diodes of the same maker-
    The 3w diode can handle as much as 3w per chipset but only takes around 1.5 - 2 w to actually illuminate-

    A 300w panel has 100 3w diodes..
    The power supplies are then matched to the PCB to only deliver around 1.5 to 2w per diode-
    This increases the lifespan of each LED diode dramatically , cuts power consumption, but does not hurt the overall brightness or penetration-
    a 3w diode burning a full 3w is only a tiny margin brighter then the same diode burning only 1.5-2w
    So for this reason, the internal power supplies are rated and designed to do just this, save power, maximize life span without sacrificing brightness-

    all the other power saved is in heating in cooling which makes upwards of 50% of an entire grows power consumption-

    MT,

    your 12,000 BTU A/C is around 1200 watts on average man-
    you should find the label- look for the amps, this will give you true power draw, just convert the amps into watts-
    My 5,000 btu runs about 450w and its an energy star model, most AC units pull about 1 amp per 1000 btu-
    So your looking at around 1200 watts of daily power savings just off that AC

  9. #9
    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    yeah big 3 ton ac units are a whole different ball game-
    also run off 240v rather then 120v-
    apples to banana's
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

  10. #10
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    Ebay Light arrived, the glass pane isn't secured and the powder coated metal housing has scrapes from the assembly process. I contacted the seller and within 10 minutes he told me to keep the light and a new one will be in the mail for me by Wednesday. Time will tell, but here's some pics of the light:

    (scrapes in conjunction with unfastened glass pane)



    Operational:





    Also heard from UPS, my 2 medicinal lights won't be delivered today, even though they arrived into my city (customs cleared) 3 days ago. They claim that they're short on drivers and my guaranteed delivery date isn't for a few days away. I asked him why my stuff was collecting dust in their warehouse and they told me to deal with it since I didn't pay for it. It took me back to my days as a freightforwarder and reminded me why I got out of the business.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  11. #11
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    So on that note, looks like I'll soon be plugging in (another) led for total wattage of 1380 start-up and 920 functional watts covering 4x8 grow space. Seems if these work I should throw out the gram:watt ratio.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  12. #12
    Rednamalas
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    cover your whole ceiling in those. if your cant grow pot you will have a great disco room lol.
    Do you need one of those panel per plant? what happens if you grow 3 foot plants will that light reach through the plant?? ive never seen this before so im curious.To me this looks great for small gardens but if you have a larger garden you sure would need alot of these to cover the space.

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightToker View Post
    Ebay Light arrived, the glass pane isn't secured and the powder coated metal housing has scrapes from the assembly process. I contacted the seller and within 10 minutes he told me to keep the light and a new one will be in the mail for me by Wednesday. Time will tell, but here's some pics of the light:

    (scrapes in conjunction with unfastened glass pane)



    Operational:





    Also heard from UPS, my 2 medicinal lights won't be delivered today, even though they arrived into my city (customs cleared) 3 days ago. They claim that they're short on drivers and my guaranteed delivery date isn't for a few days away. I asked him why my stuff was collecting dust in their warehouse and they told me to deal with it since I didn't pay for it. It took me back to my days as a freightforwarder and reminded me why I got out of the business.

  13. #13
    Shadinated skunk-mad's Avatar

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    Ill have the scraped one lol

    Skunk-mad.
    This is ten percent luck, twenty percent skill
    Fifteen percent concentrated power of will
    Five percent pleasure, fifty percent pain
    And a hundred percent reason to remember the name!



    Remember the name Fort Minor


    http://www.classic-cannabis-seed-company.co.uk

    COMING SOON!!!

    http://www.classic-cannabis-company.co.uk/

  14. #14
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    Is that orange or just how the white balance made the pic come out?
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  15. #15
    Seedling slimshady's Avatar

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    Am I right in thinking that 5W LEDs would be even better, if they were affordable?

  16. #16
    Rednamalas
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    I will stick to the HID I cant see getting the yields I do with these small lights.

  17. #17
    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by slimshady View Post
    Am I right in thinking that 5W LEDs would be even better, if they were affordable?
    not really better..there is always a give and take with any technology it seems-
    with using 5w LED diodes your using more power and will gen a slight heat increase overall-
    you will however get a better penetration and footprint just like you would going from a 400 HID to a 600W HID-

    anything you find 5w chipset LED for growing will be very expensive-
    the 3w allows a much lower cost to the production -

    If i was building the same panel @ 300w with 5w chips instead of 3w chips , in order to keep the wattage use and output range close to each other, i would have to use less diodes, which hurts on spectrum control-
    with the 3w chips they are highly efficient , low heat, and do great work, have lots of good light pen but allow for a much better range and blending of color spectrum's due to the increase of individual light sources or diodes-
    so the 3w in my opinion are the most efficient, the 5w are like buying that 1000w candle HID-

    The panels are not small at all- the 300w alone is aprox 16" x 9"
    about the same exact size as a quality air cooled HID reflector/hood-

    the 500w panels are rather large- almost the same size as a xl hood-
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

  18. #18
    Seedling Big Sky's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rednamalas View Post
    I will stick to the HID I cant see getting the yields I do with these small lights.
    your still thinking in terms of visibility to the human eye, not the plants you grow-
    Lumen's are no measure of light in terms of plant growth what so ever-
    the light penetration is fine with LED because its all about what plants see-
    over half your HID is not even used by your plants , just wasted light- so it penetrating is not doing any bit of good to the plants at all- Just adding heat, wasting electricity etc-

    The panels are not small at all- the 300w alone is approx 16" x 9"
    about the same exact size as a quality air cooled HID reflector/hood-

    the 500w panels are rather large- almost the same size as a xl hood-

    all the light comes from a small diode yes- but go grab your HID bulb- see that tiny tube in the center?-
    well thats where all your light is coming from -
    all that glass is just a housing to help build pressure and filter harmful rays-
    allows the tube to stay sterile and air tight for vacuum-
    Big Sky
    Sour Seed Co.

  19. #19
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    It's not my "first rodeo" using leds, watch and enjoy the show folks.

    Shadimar - hey bro, it's just my camera. The pics didn't do it justice, but you know I'm all thumbs.

    Skunk - ya it's just at the seem, if I had tonnes of moisture I'd be angry but my room has a monster dehumidifier. abd there won't be any concern of oxidation. The other thing is that the loose glass panel can easily be removed. Alot of units don't come with glass panels. At the same time, the glass pane is larger than the dimensions of the opening, so it won't ever fall out, but the guy is sending me one no further questions asked. can't complain indeed, i said I'd take it and happy new years.

    Red - truth be told one of these units will cover 3.5 - 4 square feet. Which is twice the area I'll be using them in. so it's actually twice as unbelievable!!! Blow your mind Huh!
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  20. #20
    Rednamalas
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    ok so how many light would i need to do a 12x26 foot room with 161 plant in it???

    Quote Originally Posted by MidnightToker View Post
    It's not my "first rodeo" using leds, watch and enjoy the show folks.

    Shadimar - hey bro, it's just my camera. The pics didn't do it justice, but you know I'm all thumbs.

    Skunk - ya it's just at the seem, if I had tonnes of moisture I'd be angry but my room has a monster dehumidifier. abd there won't be any concern of oxidation. The other thing is that the loose glass panel can easily be removed. Alot of units don't come with glass panels. At the same time, the glass pane is larger than the dimensions of the opening, so it won't ever fall out, but the guy is sending me one no further questions asked. can't complain indeed, i said I'd take it and happy new years.

    Red - truth be told one of these units will cover 3.5 - 4 square feet. Which is twice the area I'll be using them in. so it's actually twice as unbelievable!!! Blow your mind Huh!

  21. #21
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    I'm happy to offer consulting services we can work out the arrangements if you want to PM me.
    At the same time, BigSky is the best person to talk to about large scale conversions, my undestanding is that he's currently doing that with a greenhouse in Colorado.

    Everyone has their own path, you seem to really enjoy the HID. If you have something that works for you or your patient(s) then you should probably stick to it.
    Last edited by MidnightToker; 12-31-2012 at 06:14 PM.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  22. #22
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    two 90W and one 300W currently.







    cheers,
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  23. #23
    Rednamalas
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    so i would need 78 of those to do the room 26x12 thats seems redicoulus i could imagine the mess of wires. ill stick to my good old hid thanx.

  24. #24
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

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    Will this be your first LED-only grow or have you tried it before?
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  25. #25
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

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    I've done them before, but technically in the same room as a HID, as my friend has argued, albeit I do not agree with, that there is some overlap.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
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    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

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