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  1. #26
    420grower
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    and its damn possible some Phd like me wrote that book,I think if you take a look at my method its probably in every canna cook book out.As I said it is simple science,and just using the phrase decarb shows me your quoting from someones Cannabis book,not an extracting method in any real biology dept book,christ a first year science major will tell you decarb is a process in steel production,not extraction,peace brother I am not here to argue either,but you must present real facts,read the disclaimer on those books your reading,they'll give the credit to real scientists,especially when extraction of any type is discussed.I extract oils without any heat what so ever,extremely potent oils that once taken to the proper heat will rip your brain to pieces,this plant has properties even Merrill who owned the canna extract patents on america from day one until 37 claimed there was so much they hadn't found,peace brother I respect YOUR opinion,just please don't stuff canna book bullshit down my throat

  2. #27
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    I don't quote books, I quote things that I can reference/prove, I don't own a single cannabis related book other than TY magazine. No need to get heated, i'm not shoving anything down your throat. I'm presenting my side, with links to the references. They are written by real scientists. No credit is stolen, they're all listed with each article. I say decarb, because decarboxylation is a pain to type, it is not a "Cannabis book" term.

    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...14579398004505 - On decarboxylation
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9607329 - On early precursor thca production in plants (I think? lol)
    THC-a converts to THC through time, and heat. Hence, heat decarbs, while fat helps portal vein and liver absorption (delivery).

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2288596/
    ^^ medium-chain triglycerides being great for absorption, just a burp in a long article though.

    I extract oils with a below-freezing substance (butane), I decarb it when I smoke/vaporize it (instantly with combustion/vaporization).
    Last edited by dabbin; 10-27-2012 at 03:01 PM.

  3. #28
    Zygote

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    i'm new to the site so please excuse any bad manners butting in here but i need advice fairly quickly.
    i've made a small quantity of oil using the Rick Simpson method but am worried that it needs decarboxylating before ingestion. do you think that the process of boiling off the IPA will have decarbed the oil or will i need to heat it in the oven- and at what temp and for how long. at the moment it's on a cup heater at 27*C whispering 'eat me'.
    any advice welcome or a redirect to a more relevant place on the site.
    thanks.
    ps i've emailed Rick but haven't had a reply so far.

  4. #29
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    I had to read up on how to make Rick Simpson Oil (RSO, i'm lazy) lol...

    If you're using a double broiler to evaporate the IPA (IPA = Isopropyl I assume, isopropyl acetate?) it should be enough to decarb it. The video I seen only gave a max temp, but since you have to evaporate the water that's in it as well, it should be hot enough to decarb it. At the same time I don't make RSO, so I would follow a good established tutorial.

    I wouldn't heat a finished product to decarb it, you would do this before cooking with it if you are going to, if you do it after you risk harming the final product. But the RSO videos I seen they were happy with the level of decarb done during their evaporation. I merely added the information on decarbing to clear up SetMeFreeAgain's statement, wasn't trying to say anyones method is right or wrong.
    Last edited by dabbin; 10-27-2012 at 03:34 PM.

  5. #30
    Zygote

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    thanks for that dabbin, i got to the stage where you add the water and turned the switch from 'boil' to 'simmer' on the rice cooker when the whole thing exploded! sparky switch obviously. managed to save most of the oil and i was in a greenhouse so it was easy to throw water around but the mixture never reached more than around 85*C which is the boiling point of the IPA (alcohol not acetate) which was still left in the mixture.
    that's why i was considering heating it more but as has been said elsewhere, time does the same job and if necessary i'll leave it on the cup warmer until all the bubbles disappear (CO2 and water being released) but was hoping for a quicker and more certain result. i'd normally allow around 6 weeks for bud to decarb naturally but haven't a clue about oil.
    thanks for having a think about it though.

  6. #31
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    I'd be cautious if you haven't evaporated all your IPA out. It's evaporation temp is fairly high so if there is any left over, it will stay in it. If very little IPA evaporated out (if you can smell it, its way to much in my opinion) I would cook it some more until I was happy most of the IPA is out. I also wouldn't use the same rice cooker for fear of explosion (death and injury = bad). If it is already bottled / cup'd, a heat gun/hair dryer may work. Just be sure there isn't enough ISO left to explode because they are both spark sources.

    Cook off the isopropyl, you don't want to be ingesting much of it, limit your exposure.

  7. #32
    Zygote

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    i was thinking along the same lines although i was still following the decarb train of thought but the solution is to go through the final stages again with more IPA and water. this time i'll do it in the open (if it stops raining - europe).

    my other thought is that since the IPA vapour is heavier than air it will saturate the inside of the cooker pretty quickly and provide the ideal environment for a spark. to be fair to Rick though, he did say to use a fan, i thought there'd be enough draught to be safe in a leaky greenhouse. obviously i was wrong - but am richer in experience. next time i'll switch off at the main before switching the cooker anyway.

    thanks for your thoughts dabbin, it's been a pleasure to meet you.
    Last edited by tb420uk; 10-27-2012 at 05:34 PM.

  8. #33
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    I know this is an old thread, but this is information I need as I am getting confused!
    My focus is on producing edibles, preferably with a higher dose of CBD as opposed to THC but I have no way of measuring that - yet - so I'm just working on the methodology for now. I've made cannabutter (decarbed, and using coconut oil) but I'm having a problem with potency. For example, the dosage of the straight "cannabutter" on a cracker (say, 1/2 teaspoon), can be just right but if I then use use that same dosage (i.e. 6 teaspoons in cookie dough for 12), the high is very much more potent. Does the extra baking time affect the THC again, despite decarbing initially? Can I only ensure consistency with unbaked edibles? What part of the plant would be best for my focus? I have access to vape, bud, trim, fresh leaves - you name it.
    420grower, I've no doubt you produce great cannabutter - does this potency change when used in any further baking?
    Dabbin, your scientific quotes are in line with everything I have ready and studied on THC-A/THC. Should I just stick with unheated bud (and therefore 'cold' edibles) if the high isn't as big a priority?
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  9. #34
    420grower
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    well I'll chime in,when we wrote this thread,I didn't show the entire process,I own a canna medible company now and make some of the finest products in Michigan,I also have a patent pending for my juice which is water based.I use liquid nitrogen first,break it down with cold and a set of stainless screens,we then heat it to temps between 240 and 280 degrees,we add 14 grams of processed cannabis to ball jars and fill to the top with clarified butter,process in a canner at 15-20 lbs for 4 hrs,cool reheat,strain,ready for cooking,hope that helps.
    You are going to get tons of different processes,books dominate the industry,I make and sell medibles for a living,my products are batch tested for quality and potency.My system works,my numbers are proof,my 4 oz fruit juices come in at 8mg of thc,real medicine,and water based,lol,peace

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by hempress View Post
    I know this is an old thread, but this is information I need as I am getting confused!
    My focus is on producing edibles, preferably with a higher dose of CBD as opposed to THC but I have no way of measuring that - yet - so I'm just working on the methodology for now. I've made cannabutter (decarbed, and using coconut oil) but I'm having a problem with potency. For example, the dosage of the straight "cannabutter" on a cracker (say, 1/2 teaspoon), can be just right but if I then use use that same dosage (i.e. 6 teaspoons in cookie dough for 12), the high is very much more potent. Does the extra baking time affect the THC again, despite decarbing initially? Can I only ensure consistency with unbaked edibles? What part of the plant would be best for my focus? I have access to vape, bud, trim, fresh leaves - you name it.
    420grower, I've no doubt you produce great cannabutter - does this potency change when used in any further baking?
    Dabbin, your scientific quotes are in line with everything I have ready and studied on THC-A/THC. Should I just stick with unheated bud (and therefore 'cold' edibles) if the high isn't as big a priority?

    It is likely the cannabis in your cannabutter was not decarbed fully before mixing with oil/butter. Making cookies is near 100 degrees over regular decarb temps, so it very well could have finished decarbing it, even inside the dough. Times/temps vary for decarbing buds/trim, as the dryness/how far decarbed naturally it is effects how long it will take. I haven't used raw bud to cook in ages, but most people do it at 220-240f for 30-45 minutes, others for 15 min @ 300f. If you can get hash oil (solvent extract) you can see the decarb process inside the oil as acid leaves the oil as c02 bubbles. The bubbles stop when it is fully converted.


    http://skunkpharmresearch.com/decarboxylation/
    <-- pictures of decarbed oil, and excellent info on decarb process.

    http://forum.grasscity.com/incredible-edible-herb/742831-badkats-cannapharm-canna-caps-uv-reactive-glowing-hash-candy-canna-bombs-more.html
    This is the best edible guide ever made. One of the posts has a index (page 26?), but Badkitty knows her stuff. Great read, even if on another forum. Good recipes, good info, and even more goodies (like sot lecithin!!) to add. Quality. Makes me wanna cook/bake when I look at it.


    You can ingest CBDs and THC-A by not decarbing your sample, but the effects might be minimized across the table. We know how it effects THC Click image for larger version. 

Name:	decarboxlyationofTHCA.jpeg 
Views:	9 
Size:	53.3 KB 
ID:	54840 and on the basis of getting high or not. But can our bodies benefit from raw CBD's or not is kinda murky. We decarb THC so it can pass into our brain, does CBD need the same treatment even if used for internal stomach problems?? Beyond my pay scale unfortunately

    My own personal experiences with product made with product that is not decarbed mixed into coconut gel caps (never going above 95f) they had an effect on pain but they required a much higher dosage to be effective, with no stone, although I have a high tolerance to it.

    Sorry for late reply, I don't post here anymore, but I like to be helpful.
    Last edited by dabbin; 07-30-2013 at 01:45 AM.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 420grower View Post
    and its damn possible some Phd like me wrote that book,I think if you take a look at my method its probably in every canna cook book out.As I said it is simple science,and just using the phrase decarb shows me your quoting from someones Cannabis book,not an extracting method in any real biology dept book,christ a first year science major will tell you decarb is a process in steel production,not extraction,peace brother I am not here to argue either,but you must present real facts,read the disclaimer on those books your reading,they'll give the credit to real scientists,especially when extraction of any type is discussed.I extract oils without any heat what so ever,extremely potent oils that once taken to the proper heat will rip your brain to pieces,this plant has properties even Merrill who owned the canna extract patents on america from day one until 37 claimed there was so much they hadn't found,peace brother I respect YOUR opinion,just please don't stuff canna book bullshit down my throat

    Quote Originally Posted by 420grower View Post
    **snip**well I'll chime in,when we wrote this thread,I didn't show the entire process,I own a canna medible company now and make some of the finest products in Michigan,**snip**
    ... huh.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol

    In the cannabis plant, THC occurs mainly as tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA, 2-COOH-THC). Geranyl pyrophosphate and olivetolic acid react, catalysed by an enzyme to produce cannabigerolic acid,[81] which is cyclized by the enzyme THC acid synthase to give THCA. Over time, or when heated, THCA is decarboxylated producing THC. The pathway for THCA biosynthesis is similar to that which produces the bitter acid humulone in hops.[82][83]

    All sources are properly credited, and still active to view.

    I guess I am just curious how a self proclaimed PHD Author knows so little about what he does. You like to rely on that stuff, but never prove a point.

  12. #37
    Epic Genetics
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    Quote Originally Posted by dabbin View Post
    ... huh.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrahydrocannabinol

    In the cannabis plant, THC occurs mainly as tetrahydrocannabinolic acid (THCA, 2-COOH-THC). Geranyl pyrophosphate and olivetolic acid react, catalysed by an enzyme to produce cannabigerolic acid,[81] which is cyclized by the enzyme THC acid synthase to give THCA. Over time, or when heated, THCA is decarboxylated producing THC. The pathway for THCA biosynthesis is similar to that which produces the bitter acid humulone in hops.[82][83]

    All sources are properly credited, and still active to view.

    I guess I am just curious how a self proclaimed PHD Author knows so little about what he does. You like to rely on that stuff, but never prove a point.
    DAMN ! we need a like button on site

  13. #38
    420grower
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    all of my products are tested by Iron labs Michigan,I am not sure why you continue to post wiki shit,go to US patents 4,327,028 that is the science I use in my method,just short of when Kaplan revives his delta9 with saline.
    You may want to read a Biology 103 and possibly Physics 103 course aide,the science is tough.
    And stop attacking me,this is a fucking butter recipe for christ sake

  14. #39
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    Wiki? Okay. Here is a source that can't be refuted. Longer reads, hence snippets on wiki citing sources.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2736886/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6115009

    ncib = national center for biotech information. I deem them (along with the world) to be reputable, The authors are cited in each article.

    Or you could check the wiki sources yourself (those are both the sources wiki cites). While wiki is open content editing, checking sources is an amazing valuable asset, and can confirm is the information is bullshit or not. Quite efficient.

    You said (I quote) "you must present real facts" ... I only present facts, so you say take a course (btw, are you sure I haven't?). Which is it? I am just curious how a PHD that is (apparently) published on the matter does not know what decarboxylation is, in relation to THC. I quote again - "christ a first year science major will tell you decarb is a process in steel production,not extraction,"

    I have no doubt of your edibles potency, those are recipes. I'm looking at other things, the fundamentals behind it, you are welcome not to answer, one great freedom we have as humans, choice. I just do not like to be called out when I am right, with no evidence to the contrary but opinions.
    Last edited by dabbin; 08-27-2013 at 06:49 PM. Reason: your edit system kicked my ass

  15. #40
    420grower
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    My science is taken from true cannabis research,if you checked the patent,you would find these are harvard university studies,this extraction method is the only patented method and is used by all legal countries in the making of canna medicines.
    The top men and women in this field continue to use this method for cancer research.
    hell Barr labs purchased it to finalize there marinol studies,You can continue to argue this,but if all you read is skunkpharm and wiki,your never going to find real science.You forget cannabis was in almost every liquid medicine until 1937,there are lots of solid studies if you search them out,I am sorry for fighting,I have spent my entire life researching this great plant.I do get a bit over passionate,lol,peace

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 420grower View Post
    My science is taken from true cannabis research,if you checked the patent,you would find these are harvard university studies,this extraction method is the only patented method and is used by all legal countries in the making of canna medicines.
    The top men and women in this field continue to use this method for cancer research.
    hell Barr labs purchased it to finalize there marinol studies,You can continue to argue this,but if all you read is skunkpharm and wiki,your never going to find real science.You forget cannabis was in almost every liquid medicine until 1937,there are lots of solid studies if you search them out,I am sorry for fighting,I have spent my entire life researching this great plant.I do get a bit over passionate,lol,peace
    Not so fast. Link your research, I've linked mine. Otherwise your opinion is moot. Verifiable fact > your opinion. I post facts, you post opinions. I link to my facts, you claim knowledge from '37 is better than todays. Still using heroin for toothaches?

    You claim to be a Phd, cite research, post links/factual evidence.

    Every single FACT I posted, I backed up with credible links to factual science based documents, written by CONFIRMED Phds who obviously know what they talk about. Their credentials listed and their work linked. I'd put money up you do not have a phd, I've heard plenty of lies from your mouth.

    You come back with more conjecture and opinion, i'll make it clear.

    You do not have the knowledge required to debate this subject. That is PAINFULLY obvious as you try to refute medical/science papers with nothing but opinion.

    Decarboxylation is real in marijuana, you twit, it is NOT a process only used in manufacturing steel (I see your research skills are PITIFUL). That is ALL I am trying to prove, but you think yourself above ALL others even when proven wrong.

    To recap: 420, you are wrong, decarboxylation is A KNOWN PROVEN method down to its chemical structure. You can say i'm wropng, but claiming your a phd while refuting science is majorly hyoocritical. Hell I must be the president if that is the case.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2736886/
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6115009

    ncib = national center for biotech information. I deem them (along with the world) to be reputable. Show me my skunk pharm / wiki proof, I'm not the liar out of us two. But I guess a 'phd' (LOL) like yourself is much more learned than dozens of doctors who specialize in that field. Who have NO problem proving their credentials

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	23vxU.png 
Views:	8 
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ID:	55158 <-- physical changes in structure... FROM DECARBING. Renmoving the carobxylic acid... de-carboxlyating...

    *edit*
    I would think someone who 'makes Michigans finest edibles' would be more interested in learning the science behind it. Rather than assuming he knows all and everyone else must be wrong, even when shown foolproof evidence to the contrary.
    Last edited by dabbin; 08-28-2013 at 12:05 PM.

  17. #42
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    President Dabbin, I was wondering if I could discuss some research grants with you?
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadimar View Post
    President Dabbin, I was wondering if I could discuss some research grants with you?
    Absolutely. And as president I guarantee I'll deliver 100% on everything I say, no questions asked. You trust me right.... the president would never lie! Now vote for me, and I'll look into what you wanted.

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