Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 82

Thread: Getagrower.ca

  1. #51
    Flowering Member MidnightToker's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Posts
    1,715
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 211/0
    Given: 1/0
    Rep Power
    12

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    I was told at the TY expo that the police "tolerate" the selling of marihuana, but technically it is a schedule 1 in Canada and cannot be bought or sold. On the legality of that alone you wouldn't be able to get past a motion to dismiss in a competant court of law in Canada. Everyone seems to think that the courts are becoming pot friendly. The truth is that the law is poorly written and where it overlaps it is ambiguous. The courts act like a referee for parliament when they pass a law and put it down on the playing field. They only work within the field given. The MMA doesn't have any portions I saw that cover rules for governing transactions between third parties or patient to patient for schedule 1 substances.

    As far as a contract commitment, that is insanity. People, often DG's are growers in possession of their own ATP and PPL. Health conditions change at a moment's notice. At best WAB I would advise you to write in that you will give the patient a couple month's notice if you terminate. You have the right to terminate anytime you want. For security. Because you don't want to do it anymore. Whatever you want. Patients can easily access meds online and it is not as if you are cutting someone loose and banishing them from the tribe to death. It took me 30 mins to set up an account with a dispensary that'll ship all over canada for comparable rates. And what is comparable when you are talking about strains and medicines? There is no way to evaluate this. You would never be able to quantify damages. Further courts are not likely to award much of anything for pain and suffering in Canada. At most you would get your time back for work time lost. and (maybe - AND I STRESS MAYBE) your costs.

    Just my 2 cents why the moral approach works alot better. Laws are alot like corporations. They rely on people to believe in them. Real people live the law they believe and call it morality. That's the basis for compassionate pricing. Coming to a place like this increases your chances significantly.
    Currently hording the following elite genetics;

    Grape Escape x Afghani Kush, Iranian Land Race x Pre-98 Bubba Kush, Florida Skunk Ape x Purple Kush, Green Crack BX, Grape Escape x Green Crack.
    Tranquil Elephantizer, Blue Dream Lotus, Orange SunShine.
    OG Ghost Train haze #1.
    Blue Cheese.
    MK Ultra, The Hog, Wreckage.
    Nevilles Haze, Critical Mass, SSH, Black Widow, Shark Shock, Medicine Man, G13 Widow, Ortega, Angels Breath.
    Petrolia Head Stash, Willie Nelson, Golden Temple Kush.

  2. #52
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    That's what I was thinking, too, MT. Thanks for bringing this up. A DG contract is useful, but you'd have a heck of a time enforcing it, if someone 'defaults'. We're not even touching on the whole MMR concept that DG's aren't supposed to be charging at all, so I wouldn't be making it widely known or else it could affect your licence.

    Having said that, imo a contract is a good start, as it should set out as clearly as possible the expectations of the parties - but in reality, because it has no teeth (can't be legally enforced) it's nothing more than a "letter of intent". As long as you both keep that in mind, and know you can't rely on it for any real protection, you should be fine. As MT suggests, provide an 'out' for both sides, with reasonable notice period, and that should be fair.

  3. #53
    Zygote

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    8

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Thanks MT, I do like the idea of a contract. I really just want to make sure we are both on the same page more than gaining ammunition for a possible lawsuit.

    You don't think it's fair for compensation to change based on strain? I figured that was fair based on a 90 day sativa compared to say a 63 day kush, based on extra use of electricity, nutes, time etc.

  4. #54
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweetybird View Post
    I agree whole heartedly with having a contract or at least actually agreeing on the details in writing, even by email. If you want to use email instead of a separate contract, make certain all details are specified and agreed to. Then you have a contract via email. Yes, you can sue on it, either party, if necessary. Hopefully no one plays silly bastard and needs legal recourse.

    There are a lot of good arrangements. Personally, I see nothing wrong with cost recovery and a bit for good measure.
    Sounds like you have some legal experience, Tweetybird, so I'd like to run this by you. Keeping in mind that one can't contract outside the law, as they say, if you can't legally sell the stuff, and the contract speaks to that, the contract is unenforceable. So I keep thinking about it... If the contract only deals with issues of the agreed supply of meds in exchange for a reimbursement of expenses in a predetermined amount, then it might fly. Up to the judge, if it came to that. What do you think?

  5. #55
    Zygote

    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    5
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    8

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Is compensation for a DG really not legal? I could have sworn the health Canada material said I have to claim everything on my taxes? I'm starting to understand the "hell Canada" moniker a bit better.

  6. #56
    Flowering Member Tweedybird's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tweedville, Canada
    Posts
    1,829
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    10

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenMeds View Post
    Sounds like you have some legal experience, Tweetybird, so I'd like to run this by you. Keeping in mind that one can't contract outside the law, as they say, if you can't legally sell the stuff, and the contract speaks to that, the contract is unenforceable. So I keep thinking about it... If the contract only deals with issues of the agreed supply of meds in exchange for a reimbursement of expenses in a predetermined amount, then it might fly. Up to the judge, if it came to that. What do you think?
    One CAN contract outside of the law. The catch is that the disgruntled party cannot ask the court or police to help them. This is not novel. Hitman not getting paid for breaking someone's leg can go to court and ask the court to order payment, but the court will not assist. The hitman would have to be a pretty big dumb-ass to try. Likely get held by security for some intensive questioning. Yes, I have a lot of legal experience and a law degree to back me up.

    If the parties are contracting under a legal regieme, MMAR, then the courts will attempt to assist. However, they are not going to force someone to grow for a patient. Similarly they are not going to force a patient to buy from a grower. Either party could make a claim for damages, if any actually exist. The point is that depending on the circumstances, there may or may not be any damages. This is really a case specific question.

    In my opinion, anyone thinking courts are cannabis friendly is kidding him/herself. However, when it comes to enforcing legal arrangements, they still try to assist. Let's not confuse sales agreements NOT under the MMAR umbrella with patient/grower agreements which are legal.

  7. #57
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Will.a.bong View Post
    Is compensation for a DG really not legal? I could have sworn the health Canada material said I have to claim everything on my taxes? I'm starting to understand the "hell Canada" moniker a bit better.
    This is a subject that's been debated in other threads here at TY. There is a lot of confusion, and HC doesn't offer much clarity. I remember reading on the HC site a while ago something about their Prarie Plant Systems supplier being the ONLY legal source to purchase under your PPL, implying (or possibly stating clearly, not sure) that sourcing from a DG is not purchased product. However, I looked all over the site today and I can't find that document. I DID find, under FAQ's, this :

    Persons who are authorized to possess and/or produce marihuana for medical purposes can however, claim the costs of their marihuana supply as a medical expense for tax purposes provided they have receipts from the Government of Canada (for Health Canada product) or from their designated producer. For detailed information, please consult the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) website
    (Bold emphasis mine) This would imply that a DG can issue a receipt for the supply of meds, which makes what I said earlier wrong. I honestly don't know, but I'm sure there are others here with opinions, too.

  8. #58
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweetybird View Post
    One CAN contract outside of the law. The catch is that the disgruntled party cannot ask the court or police to help them. This is not novel. Hitman not getting paid for breaking someone's leg can go to court and ask the court to order payment, but the court will not assist.
    So a contract for anything illegal is pointless if it can't be legally enforced. So much for Contract Killers - wouldn't want to rip one off, though. hehe

  9. #59
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Hey WAB, here's something else I found on HC's site today:

    6. General Obligations

    Persons authorized to possess marihuana for medical purposes and holders of a licence to produce marihuana for medical purposes must adhere to the following general obligations. At any given time, they must:
    • not have more dried marihuana and/or marihuana plants in their possession than they are allowed, as specified in their authorization to possess or licence to produce;
    • maintain the measures necessary to ensure the security of the dried marihuana and/or marihuana plants in their possession;
    • ensure that they abide by all other applicable federal, provincial and municipal legislation, including but not limited to legislation restricting smoking in public places; and
    • not sell, provide or traffic any of the dried marihuana, marihuana plants and/or marihuana seeds that are in their possession.

    That last part, if read verbatim, says that you can produce it, but you can't sell it. It does NOT say "...to anyone other than the licensed person it is produced for." So this part of the HC site seems to contradict that other part I pasted above.

    No wonder we are confused.

  10. #60
    Flowering Member Tweedybird's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tweedville, Canada
    Posts
    1,829
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    10

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Will.a.bong View Post
    Is compensation for a DG really not legal? I could have sworn the health Canada material said I have to claim everything on my taxes? I'm starting to understand the "hell Canada" moniker a bit better.
    This is a general answer for information purposes, listing publicly available information.

    Controlled Drugs and Substances Act (S.C. 1996, c. 19)

    70.2 A licensed dealer producing dried marihuana under contract with Her Majesty in right of Canada may provide or send that marihuana to the holder of an authorization to possess. [This pertains to Prairie Plant]

    Narcotic Control Regulation
    9.3 A licensed dealer may, subject to the terms and conditions of their licence, produce, make, assemble, sell, provide, transport, send or deliver only narcotics specified in their licence.

    Policy on Health Canada's Supply of Marihuana Seeds and Dried Marihuana for Medical Purposes
    http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/marihuana/supply-approvis/policy-politique-eng.php

    6. General Obligations


    Persons authorized to possess marihuana for medical purposes and holders of a licence to produce marihuana for medical purposes must adhere to the following general obligations. At any given time, they must:
    • not have more dried marihuana and/or marihuana plants in their possession than they are allowed, as specified in their authorization to possess or licence to produce;
    • maintain the measures necessary to ensure the security of the dried marihuana and/or marihuana plants in their possession;
    • ensure that they abide by all other applicable federal, provincial and municipal legislation, including but not limited to legislation restricting smoking in public places; and
    • not sell, provide or traffic any of the dried marihuana, marihuana plants and/or marihuana seeds that are in their possession.
    Only licensed dealers can sell marijuana. Dealer licenses are granted pursuant to s. 9.2 of the Narcotics Control Regulation.
    So, the question remains, can a DG be compensated for services provided, but not payment for the marijuana?

    A similar situation is sometimes found at garage sales when a basket is for sale and the the seller will throw in "for free" alcohol if you buy the basket, as the seller does not have a license to sell alcohol. Also similar to a person selling bread. They get a wage, not money from the bread, unless they own the store.

    One further point. The policy above states "medical purposes and holders of a licence to produce". It does not say "or". The word is "and". Some of you may want to look up the distinction. However, it is policy, not law.

    So personally, I suggest phoning Revenue Canada and Hell Canada and see what they say about DG's being compensated for services.
    Last edited by Tweedybird; 09-27-2012 at 02:27 PM.

  11. #61
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Really goos info, Tweetybird! I've not looked at the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act.

    My question would then be: Is a DG actually a 'licensed dealer' as defined by the Narcotics Control Regulation you cited? I read S.8 & 9, compared it to the MMR DG application process, and it seems to be similar to those requirements, but the MMR "authorized activities of a DG" are completely silent to the issue of selling. This strikes me as intentional, but who would know?

  12. #62
    Flowering Member Tweedybird's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tweedville, Canada
    Posts
    1,829
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    10

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Not unusual to have ridiculous gaps in legislation. It's very difficult to anticipate all situations which will require explanation ahead of time. Although I would have imagined compensation would be obvious...

    A DG is not a licensed dealer as per the Narcotic Control Regs. They could be, but it is a differrent process. A person can be both, such as a pharmacist.

  13. #63
    Flowering Member Tweedybird's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tweedville, Canada
    Posts
    1,829
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    10

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    By the way, there likely is case law on this point, whether a DG can be compensated. If anyone wants to look...I can't imagine this hasn't been heard by a court somewhere in Canada.

  14. #64
    Flowering Member Tweedybird's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tweedville, Canada
    Posts
    1,829
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    10

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    A-HA! The legislation is actually silent for a reason. lol. Reason is below:
    http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc...nlii30796.html

    Hitzig v. Canada, 2003 CanLII 30796 (ON CA)
    It invalidated those supply provisions which prevented designated growers from receiving compensation (s. 34(2)),

  15. #65
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Nice work! That citation will keep me busy for a while...
    That decision was almost 10 years ago. I wonder if anything has changed since then.

  16. #66
    Retired Staff hollowpoint's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    in research, compiling the truth about mj from scientists, NOT politicians
    Posts
    1,907
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 17/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    17


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default compensate a gardener

    anyone can pay thier gardener whatever they like, under contract too, and it will be acted on by the courts. how you determine the compensation will be based on hours worked and consummables like power and water above the initial startup costs for hardware. patients will need to understand that sharing the costs of hardware, under a two permit house is also fair since the hardware use will be common between the plants. (person pm'd me with that question) and if the dg is paid under this scheme then claim it to revenue canada and get taxed to death, oh yah the bad news is always closeby.
    Hit them where it hurts, show them the scientific truth about marijuana, while debunking the lies.
    Even politicians know, that the truth will always win.

  17. #67
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tweetybird View Post
    A-HA! The legislation is actually silent for a reason. lol. Reason is below:
    http://www.canlii.org/en/on/onca/doc...nlii30796.html

    Hitzig v. Canada, 2003 CanLII 30796 (ON CA)
    It invalidated those supply provisions which prevented designated growers from receiving compensation (s. 34(2)),
    OK I read that decision and it clears up the issue nicely. The Court decided that the MMR couldn't stipulate that the DG had to produce without compensation, so the regs were changed by removing that clause... but they stopped short of amending the regs to state outright that DG's can sell. Typical.

  18. #68
    Shadbot 4.20 Shadimar's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Cannaba
    Posts
    7,753
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 881/0
    Given: 470/1
    Rep Power
    25


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    If the DG were reimbursed as opposed to paid then it may no longer be taxable, however I'm not suggesting that it all be called reimbursement as a tax scam, but simply that paying their bills is not the same as paying them.
    ♪♫♪♫♪♪♫♪
    Ceci n'est pas une signature du forum.
    Thank You for using S.h.a.d.i.m.a.r.: the world's most poorly coded chatbot.
    Substantially Humanlike Application Determined Insufficient Mediocre And Relatively annoying.

  19. #69
    Flowering Member Tweedybird's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Tweedville, Canada
    Posts
    1,829
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    10

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    At the end of all this, what do we have? To summarise, nothing wrong with compensating a grower for time, effort, skill, materials, overhead, etc. Just don't buy the medication.

  20. #70
    Vegetative Member GreenMeds's Avatar

    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    deep inside Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    739
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 1/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Cool. And the only reason to be cautious of the whole "buying the medication" bit is because the MMR isn't clear enough on the issue. The Hitzig case seems pretty clear that it would be o.k., though. If you ended up in court over a DG contract dispute, you'd probably have to educate the judge right from the Hitzig case on forward, because referring to the MMR won't help much.

  21. #71
    Zygote

    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    7
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    8

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    I would suggest building a solid relationship with your Dg before you draw up a contract or especially before getting the licensed. Get to know them a little build some rapport. Sometime a real person will show there self at unexpected times. Build a relationship with them find out why they really want to do it, not by asking straight forward questions but by asking the right question at the right time. Every time you talk to them ask them some more question to see if they keep to the story or they stumble. I would want to know the whole reason why they started growing in the first place and what keeps them growing now. Other things might be there career choices, family situations, ect ect. I would have a harder time seeing a dentist with 3 kids, a passion for challenging gardening and a Labrador retriever, jumping ship to go sell his entire product to some street thugs. On the other hand someone that is jobless, recently divorced, rents an apt in a pretty shady part of town and does not like talking about any details on their life, I would want to ask a few more questions. Not saying this is a cut and dry solution but I think this will help insulate you from being put in bad situations. I would also ask yourself if this is someone that you could work with, if so you might have a better appreciation for what they say they are doing, example mites. When they call you and tell you they have a big problem and they might be behind or what not. You would know their hard working and trying to fix it a get you your meds quickly or they’re going to get to it when it happens and you have to find meds somewhere else. You set yourself up for the situations so you might be a little more prepared / understanding.

    2 cents does not get very far these days, but there is mine.

  22. #72
    Zygote

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    10
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 0/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    9

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    I am giving a warning for anyone looking for a DG, There is a website advertised somewhere on here that we called and they said they would supply meds at only shipping cost. Now that they are the DG they have changed their rules. Now they want 100$ an ounce. This website that the hooked us up with the DG is designatedgrowers.com so plz be careful if you deal with these people as they are appearing as crooks. What a mess!

  23. #73
    Rednamalas
    Guest

    Default

    never in a million years will i get a dg. i will hire help to do the work if need be and just point do this do that atleaast no one fuks with my meds and is controlling me

  24. #74
    Retired Staff hollowpoint's Avatar

    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    in research, compiling the truth about mj from scientists, NOT politicians
    Posts
    1,907
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 17/0
    Given: 0/0
    Rep Power
    17


    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default nice to be able to grow

    growing your meds, indoors in january when its minus 30 and a snowstorm, is totally therapeutic. I used to breed my own specials with stock often won here at ty, in the beginning. but reality is I can't do that when I have bones that break off every few weeks which would tend to mess up any gardening plans. plus living in an apartment despite having the money for a place of my own, I can't look after that either. so what are my options red? since i became involved in the med end of things around 95 and produced for my self with spillage going to other patients for free, when available of course, and I wasn't alone. today I can count on one hand the people I have known for more than a couple of years who haven't ripped me off over marijuana. prohibition created this mess and has served the judicial ferris wheel very well but matbe its time to lay off prison guards, judges etc, start an economy trully based on green all while helping the sick, the disabled vets and our granny with her bad hip don't you?
    i would consider buying a place with someone else who was also green gardening and maybe doesn't have the downpayment?
    Hit them where it hurts, show them the scientific truth about marijuana, while debunking the lies.
    Even politicians know, that the truth will always win.

  25. #75
    Vegetative Member

    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    520
    Thumbs Up/Down
    Received: 8/0
    Given: 1/0
    Rep Power
    8

    0 Not allowed! Not allowed!

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenda View Post
    I am giving a warning for anyone looking for a DG, There is a website advertised somewhere on here that we called and they said they would supply meds at only shipping cost. Now that they are the DG they have changed their rules. Now they want 100$ an ounce. This website that the hooked us up with the DG is designatedgrowers.com so plz be careful if you deal with these people as they are appearing as crooks. What a mess!
    If you want to end a relation ship with a DG, try this. I have amended 2 things on my license, and all I did is resubmit my Form A with "Renewal of an authorization if changes since your last renewal or amendment" ticked off, hopefully it can resolve your situation (if you're unhappy with your grower).

    Grab the Form A (application, no doctor signature required), and Form C or Form E1 (Form C if you can grow for yourself, Form E1 if you cannot). This should (I haven't tried) amend your license so that your supplier becomes Health Canada, and should revoke any DG/PPL status. You can phone HC and ask, but I would specifically ask if something works. Hollowpoint found out for all of us they won't come up/come out with a solution.

    http://hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/marihuana.../index-eng.php - forms, their phone # is on bottom of page.
    Last edited by dabbin; 10-27-2012 at 05:45 PM.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •