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  1. #1
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    Default Results of my LED experiement #1

    (i know this info in the other thread too but i feel it makes it easier to discuss results in their own thread.)

    Ok, we've had a chance now to try all the LED grown strains and when possible compair them to relively equal to slightly greater weights of HPS grown bud of the same strain.

    for the record i got very low yields but for half the flowering time i was using only 660nm light which alone inhibits proper flowering. about half way through i added vitalite full spectrum lights and more proper bud growth developed.

    on the catalyst i got 4 gm. for a similar sized cat grown under 600 watts we got 36g. aproximately a 9x yield difference. hopefully having the fluoros on the entire time will help more sinificantly. i got .8 g off the original misty. 1 bowl off the william's wonder (6 hits), 1 bowl of the nycd (6 hits), and 1 hit off the wwxc99. the cat cover and area of about 3 square feet , the misty 8 square inches, the wwxc99, willy's and nycd were each about 3-4 square inches and between 3-5 inches tall. so you can see no mater what this smaller plants would not have produced too much.

    (all smoke tests were short evaluation tests off effect. aproximately .1 g was smoked between 2 people per test. effects were gaged over a 30 min period.)

    the wwxc99 was a obvious effect from the one hit. not enough to really analyze the effect tho.

    nycd LED smoked first. very potent. tingling in teeth, lips and tongue was intense for both lisa and i. strong frontal lobe buzzing sensations. there was some sense of vissiual distortion. good staying power, could still feel tingling and buzzing and general "high" sensations at the end of 30 min. the nycd HPS was smoked second. "stacked" on to the LED grown stuff it knocked us both out and we had to take a nap. none of the up high effect was there, it was just all intense stone. much more body effect. later smoking tests with the hps grown stuff did not effect us so intensely, for as long, or as stupifyingly. based on this all later LED test were done second.

    Catalyst HPS produced a good over all buzz and happy high. at this low dose effects appeared to fade to 'none obvious' within 15min of the start of the test and there was an want to smoke more. Catalyst LED produced very very intense fontal lobe buzzing first, then the face and teeth began to tingle intensely, by the end of the bowl both lisa and i expressed a sense that we had consomed some mild tryptamine and were experiencing vissiual distorsions consisting of pattern, sparkle and increased tracers. the staying power of the high was very good tho the vissiuals had mostly faded by the end of the 30 min test, the sense of "high" and physical effects remained strong. a 3rd party has also commented and the tryptamine like effect of the LED grown catalyst.

    William's Wonder HPS was by far the most mellow and subdued high. very relaxing and pleasent but with rather limited staying power. by 13min into the test already thinking about smoking more. William's wonder LED once again induced tingling in lips teeth and face but this time it was less pronounced. the frontal lobe buzzing was again pressent but also not as intense as either the NYCD or cat. mild vissual distorsions, about the same as the nycd. most relaxing of the LED grown. could still feel an effect at the end of the 30 min.

    Orginal Misty HPS has a nice euphoric mood ellivating effect and some physical stimulation effects. over all better staying power than some of the other hps grown stuff but lisa still found it "lacking" and "mild". for me i was happy until about 17min into the test but by then was thinking about smoking more. the Original Misty LED was still tingly but less obviously so for me tho lisa still commented on it. it's effects hit fast and for me were much more pronounced in a "head high" sense that the other LED grown buds. the frontal lobe buzzing was still there but there was something more as well, a feeling of looking though a lense of expanded focus. so far this is have great staying power.

    over all despite the small yeilds i am very happy with the results. next time the yields should be higher since the missing needed spectra will be added from the beginning and not half way through.

    final conclusion is that per weight THC's of different sorts are WAY up so are most of the promenent smells and tastes of each strain. CBDs/CBNs appeared to be almost none exsistant. i would have to conclude that over all the LED grown buds are the most potent cannabis i have ever smoked per weight, especially the catalyst. lisa agrees.

    one interesting morphological note: stems were unusually thin and floppy. this resulted in plants that dried out very very quickly.

    another note from lisa: The LED strains all a lot of body tingle and relieve pain.
    Regestered PDX area TC-caregiver for 2, housewife.

    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
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    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

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  2. #2
    Flowering Member salmayo's Avatar

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    Thumbs up Excellent Report.

    Switching to sampling the HPS results first was a good call.

    Is there enough yield to comparatively sample the earlier growth (bottom of the bud) to the more recent growth. I would think a comparison of the middle length zone of the stig (bud's stem) would be ripe enough to compare to the older bottom bud area, in an effort to forcast the next crops results.

    Also how would you characterize this crops results in terms of how 10/14 lit results? I ask this because 10/14 crops finish fast, have low weight, high potency and high triche developement.

    How did the triche developement turn out vs. the HPS?

    My LED only results had low triche developement, but high potency. It seemed that the plants produced more THC per weight, but migration of the THC to (or retainment in) the stalked triche heads was reduced.
    Last edited by salmayo; 02-20-2006 at 03:34 PM.
    The City of Chico has the highest per capita MJ consumption in America... ...and it doesn't even feel like work.

  3. #3
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    i have not observed the kind of result you describe from 10/14 light cycles tho it has been a long time since tried one. however, what you describe sound right on que for what i got.

    as for comparing different parts of the plant, well growth appeared all over the plant to fail and then when i added the vitalites the growth was even all over the plant. just did not seem to "appear at much of a different developmental rate".

    trich stalks were longer but over all more triches per square inch seemed to have swullen and had heads. much higher trich to plant matter ratio in the LED bud over HPS. trichs seem more brittle on the LED grown stuff but could be that it is just more brittle all around.
    Regestered PDX area TC-caregiver for 2, housewife.

    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

    Anit harm none...

  4. #4
    Flowering Member salmayo's Avatar

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    Default Did I leave out the buds. OTB (Of The Buds).

    I was referring to the different parts of the buds (cones) not the plants. ie: Bottom of the bud, Middle of the bud, Top (or tip) of the bud.

    Assuming the Bottom of the bud would have the most straight LED influence, and that the Middle would be more influenced by the combined LED/Vita spectrum.

    And Assuming that the Bottoms and Middles of the buds had time to ripen, verse the tip which may be less ripe.

    Then sampling the Bottoms and Middles of the buds could be a fair relative comparison of the LED vs. LED/Vita spectrums. As compared to sampling the Top (Tip) of the Bud and comparing to the Bottom of the Buds which would be more influenced by the lack of ripening time of the Tips (Tops).

    Sorry if I left out the Buds... ...Tonight I'll make sure to do twice as many!
    The City of Chico has the highest per capita MJ consumption in America... ...and it doesn't even feel like work.

  5. #5
    Embryo

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    How much would a LED setup cost and what is the power usage?

  6. #6
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    BOD, this particulare setup cost about $970, and consumes 90w of power. price would depend on how much work you were willing to put in yourself and who you baught the parts from. mine was prefab so was a bit more pricy than if i had made it all myself. power supply options can also seriously effect over all price. the more efficient the driver the more pricy the setup.
    Regestered PDX area TC-caregiver for 2, housewife.

    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

    Anit harm none...

  7. #7
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    Sal, during the LED only phase the bud parts fromed. during the second half with the fluoros these bud parts seemed to all fill out "together" the was not much of an obvious filling out at the bottom first sorta thing. the pre-existing parts just got fat so again i really am not sure what you are asking for is even possible. besides the buds are small and very crumbly, effectively seperating the parts would be so hard.
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    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

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    Embryo Cakes's Avatar

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    It seems possible to link the weak stems and the limited crystal development and the easily broken off crystals; they all show a lacking in their usual sturdy construction.

    This whispers to me of potassium def or axellerated N/P. but, If there is absolutely no burn coupled with small growth then maybe not N (chloroplast activity low too because of the light difference?). But the P is way available if you're getting so many trichs.

    Sound waves can really change nute presences also.

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    Embryo Cakes's Avatar

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    i.e. the vitamin and mineral contents of the plant grown

    R. Daniel, a member here, has knowledge about music being used to grow plants.

    He also says that using oppositional spectrums of lighting increases resin production and active compound production. Specifically he mentioned blue oriented wide spectrum bulbs coupled with cfl's having a color rating of 2700.

    I wonder if one spectrum produces one and the other produces another or if it's the actual combo.

    The results in potency increases and the way they increased, i.e. one had heightened cerebral and the other heightened body; are quite notable. Those terms are often associated with the differences between indica and sativa. I am not intimate with the lineage of the strains you mentioned but knowing their ancestery interests me now quite a bit. They had one of (or more of) their traits emphasized by this grow set-up.

    and it leads me to also wonder-
    Did one type of high evolve into another? i.e. the ruderalis into the indica and then the sativa and/or does the THC evolve in accordance to (what)?

    bug populations to be fended off?
    this is a common reason for producing these compounds in the plant kingdom according to some schools of thought
    digestive juices? carnivorous plants put off some mean resin
    moisture conservation?
    sweating out of toxins (maybe it's a process in the midst of evolution)

    or the collection/distillation of alternative mind set/body chem particles from..

    god, so we'll all know what joy is when he finally shows up?

    p.p.m.s.
    it seems essential to get an analysis of plant's grown with alternative methods re the vitamin %'s and mineral contents

    HEY ALL YOU RICH GUYS^^^^^^^

    The water retention abilities of the plant may speak of calcium or potassium availability or uptake/usage.

    The anti-histimine characteristics our plant has may be a vital piece to this puzzle or an active force to manipulate as well.

    maybe breed it with asprin?

  10. #10
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cakes
    It seems possible to link the weak stems and the limited crystal development and the easily broken off crystals; they all show a lacking in their usual sturdy construction.

    This whispers to me of potassium def or axellerated N/P. but, If there is absolutely no burn coupled with small growth then maybe not N (chloroplast activity low too because of the light difference?). But the P is way available if you're getting so many trichs.

    thanx for the info. no burns. was not too much N. i use silica blast and it causes more flexible stems. i was thinking it was this effect taken to some kind of extreem tho i could be way off.
    Regestered PDX area TC-caregiver for 2, housewife.

    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

    Anit harm none...

  11. #11
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cakes
    He also says that using oppositional spectrums of lighting increases resin production and active compound production. Specifically he mentioned blue oriented wide spectrum bulbs coupled with cfl's having a color rating of 2700.

    I wonder if one spectrum produces one and the other produces another or if it's the actual combo.

    The results in potency increases and the way they increased, i.e. one had heightened cerebral and the other heightened body; are quite notable. Those terms are often associated with the differences between indica and sativa. I am not intimate with the lineage of the strains you mentioned but knowing their ancestery interests me now quite a bit. They had one of (or more of) their traits emphasized by this grow set-up.


    bug populations to be fended off?
    this is a common reason for producing these compounds in the plant kingdom according to some schools of thought
    digestive juices? carnivorous plants put off some mean resin moisture conservation?
    sweating out of toxins (maybe it's a process in the midst of evolution)

    The water retention abilities of the plant may speak of calcium or potassium availability or uptake/usage.

    The anti-histimine characteristics our plant has may be a vital piece to this puzzle or an active force to manipulate as well.
    by the way the best of the LED grow plants, the catalyst, was especially effective for anti-histimine needs and cleared up runny nose and sneezing quick.

    Farred and red alternated seemd to have an opposing effect that i think requires both for proper functioning of a single photosythesis process but i could be wrong. sal would be the one to ask about that.

    i personally am a beleaver of THC rich plants having evolved as a defence against UVB primarily. Sal says the target frequency for the receptor in cannabis responsible for the plants ability to react to UVB light is aproximately 288nm. the naturally occurring higher potency strains occur at the equator and at higher elivations. both areas were greater amounts of UVB reach the ground.

    all the plants i was growing were hybrids. the catalyst and the nycd are a little more sat dom. william's wonder is more indica with some sat qualities possible if you treat it right. the misty is a 50/50 hybrid. ww/c99 is sat dom.
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    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

    Anit harm none...

  12. #12
    Flowering Member salmayo's Avatar

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    Default Seven Spectral Frontiers.

    Quote Originally Posted by cakes
    R. Daniel, a member here, has knowledge about music being used to grow plants.

    He also says that using oppositional spectrums of lighting increases resin production and active compound production. Specifically he mentioned blue oriented wide spectrum bulbs coupled with cfl's having a color rating of 2700.

    I wonder if one spectrum produces one and the other produces another or if it's the actual combo.

    The results in potency increases and the way they increased, i.e. one had heightened cerebral and the other heightened body; are quite notable.

    bug populations to be fended off?
    The recommended use of combined fluorescent spectrums results from the developement work which resulted in the G.E. and Sylvania Wide Spectrum grow lights. The best results for yield and plant morghology (acceptable elongation) were achieved with a mixture of three phosphors, but it was decided due to economic reasons to select a two phosphor lamp. This is because of the much higher cost of the high output red phosphors used, which is why Standard spectrum Sylvania Gro Lux lamps using this are twice as expensive as the Gro Lux W/S (Wide Spectrum) tubes. Even Sylvania recommends using one of each to get the best results, mimicking the spectrum of the better three phosphor tubes they decided not to make.

    One might make assuptions about spectrum stimulated THC vs. CBDs/CBNs results, based on work done with other plants, but MJ is a different animal and full of suprises as the mother of this thread has demonstrated.

    My experiments indicate that FarRed increases Triche and resin content vs. Red and that Red increases THC content vs. Blue., but Blue is needed to que light stimulated photoperiodic processes. And from there it gets complicated.

    Hopefully that what you wanted to know Cakes.
    The City of Chico has the highest per capita MJ consumption in America... ...and it doesn't even feel like work.

  13. #13
    Flowering Member salmayo's Avatar

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    Default Oh Buggers.

    Oh and the bug thing Cakes.

    I believe THC is produced by the plant to protect the seeds form bacteria and possibly U.V.

    PF has a U.V. thread or two you might want to look at.
    The City of Chico has the highest per capita MJ consumption in America... ...and it doesn't even feel like work.

  14. #14
    Green Medicine
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    Anyone want to finish compiling this list?

    Component Response Wavelength in Nanometers

    Chlorophyll A 430nm and 662nm
    Chlorophyll B 453nm and 642nm
    Carotenoids 440nm and 460nm
    Phycoeythrin 460nm, 530nm, and 550nm
    Phycocyanin 605nm

  15. #15
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    very cool, thanx GM! i wish knew as much about this biology side of things as some of you all apear too. but i'm learning.

    i notice there is not a farred receptor mentioned there.

    here is an interesting question, do you really need to activate all those spectra in order to have proper healthy plant growth?
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    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

    Anit harm none...

  16. #16
    Flowering Member salmayo's Avatar

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    Default I don't do proper.

    Phytochrome Red, Pr : 660nm.
    Phytochrome FarRed, Pfr : 735nm (small secondary peak from 400nm to 475nm).
    Cryptochromes : 450nm (fairly wide bands from 400nm to 500nm and similar secondary peaks arround 350nm). Varies slightly with CRY1, CRY2, CRY3. Possible CRY4 with a 282nm peak.
    Phototropins : 435nm (fairly wide in the 400nm to 500nm range), may vary with different species.

    A rapidly expanding amount of information is coming out of the Plant Genome Project using Arabidopsis mutants. But Cannabis is a different critter, it may use the same receptors, but they trigger different genetics. The triggers are the same, but the genetic codes executed are different. Arabidopsis is a Long Day Plant (LDP) and Cannabis is a Short Day Plant (SDP), but both seem to use CRY responce as a Sunrise trigger to sense Photoperiodic Circadian cycles.

    www.arabidopsis.com
    The City of Chico has the highest per capita MJ consumption in America... ...and it doesn't even feel like work.

  17. #17
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    Thanx sal.
    Regestered PDX area TC-caregiver for 2, housewife.

    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

    Anit harm none...

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    Embryo Cakes's Avatar

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    thanks for all the answers. I'm interested in the UVB threads so I'll see you there and the genome link too..

    Fluorescents can be double ballasted to give off more light (approx. 70% more). i wonder if you can double power all lights..

    It's my understanding that chlorophyll are actually bacteria. I've seen them called cyanobacteria.

    sometimes bacteria have very specialized diets (and abilities).

    i'm wondering which of them to feed or cultivate or even inject into my plants; maybe distillations and extractions from other plants even.

    my grandma's fert is to put some weeds or plants into a jug of water and let it steep for a few days.

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    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    Cakes, are you talking about Chloroplasts <sp>? this is the plant equivelent to midocondria in animals.

    Chloroplats = Plant cell inclusion bodies that contain chlorophyll. They occur in cells of leaves and young stems.

    "my grandma's fert is to put some weeds or plants into a jug of water and let it steep for a few days."

    on this note I have found that the water left over from making bubble can be very beneficial to plants, before it ferments. during the ferment it does not seem to be good for plants, after the fermemt i am not sure since i have never tested it at that point.
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    Mugen: [after finding a bag of coins in the river] We hit the pot, Jack!
    Fuu: That's jackpot!
    Mugen: All I know is we're filthy bitch!
    Fuu: Filthy rich!
    Jin: I hope your doing that on purpose.

    PRESERVE NEURAL PLASTICITY!!!

    Anit harm none...

  20. #20
    Theraputic Cannabis Dominatrix pflover's Avatar

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    oh, and here is the UVB thread link.

    http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbul...ghlight=primer
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    Embryo Cakes's Avatar

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    Thanks for the link. We'd like to see the details about UVB light and anything y'all have>although, so far, we consider it unlikely for such a psycho/physiologically active substance such as THC to be a suntan lotion; it's properties are too much like those meant to impact predators in other species (of plants).

    my plant even sprayed me in skunk smell last night when i accidently fractured one of it's leaves. The plant was pissed off for a second and it pissed off..ha ha

    ^but true

    and oops on me.
    Yes, i meant chloroplasts. and yea I know that they are described as different things (organelles, etc.) in academic texts and the newer thinking that sees them as a nation unto themselves is very intriguing as well.

    it seems that blue-green algae is a cyanobacteria with a plant wrapped around it
    and
    lichens are a cyanbacteria that has been adopted by a mushroom
    and
    cyanobacteria can live on their own

    They are the only microbe that gives more to the earth than it takes re compost and the manufacture of other goods because they can withdraw lots of nutes from the air and make lots of flesh from their ability to manipulate light (electromagnetic energy).

    ^^^i think their DNA sounds like a good thing to have for ourselves

    here's a couple of neat pix and at the bottom (past the list of papers) there are some links to cyanobacteria sites and genome info:

    http://tolweb.org/tree?group=Cyanoba...oup=Eubacteria

    And I thought grandma's plant teas might be a source of live bacteria to import to the new plant but I might have to refine the technique....

  22. #22
    Embryo Cakes's Avatar

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    oh oh oh
    bubble
    I didn't get it.

    okay! so Yea!

    no good in ferment?
    That could be a bit discouraging because it made me think there's nobody at home in there capable of regeneration, but ice and fermentation may not be an ideal home either.

    I'm just getting a taste of some of this so i identify with you when you lamented not having the details at your fingertips.

    but operation overgrow is under way

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    the ice is several days melted by the time bubble water obviously starts to ferment in my experience so the ice is not effect grow. ferment is a sign of life.

    maybe next time i will try and inoculate my left over bubble water with cyanobacteria. i have some that i inoculate my soil with.
    Regestered PDX area TC-caregiver for 2, housewife.

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