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View Full Version : LED discussion links from TY, L.E.D.



Quixotic
11-26-2008, 05:34 PM
OK so I am sure others have realized that the search feature on TY does not recognize words of three letters or less. This leads to many people not finding the information they are looking for. The largest discussion that I see impacted by this is that of LED's and their application to cultivation. We see repeated posts asking about their use and other such info. So I will attempt to make a collection of links to the discussions on the subject of LED's. I will make two link sections, "TY" and "non TY". I will update/edit this first post to add others as I find them or others PM them to me. I would prefer to try and keep the overall thread uncluttered if at all possible to cut down on duplicate links.

So if you see a LED discussion link not listed in this first post, please PM it to me and I will add it.

I would also like to take a sec to thank pflover and salmayo, both have added greatly to the overall knowledge of LED use for cultivation. Thank you Both, and all the others out there trying to advance the LED for cultivation possibilities.

Peace!

-Q


TY links to LED discussions:
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=154210&postcount=7
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14056
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=206782#post20678
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10478
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=7369
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13572

Non-TY links to LED discussions:




I will add short descriptions of the links in the near future.

salmayo
02-05-2009, 03:01 PM
Just what I needed, since I'm interlinking some threads today, in an effort to archive and save some information that seems to have been lost due to some problems this last month at a thread I was thit at Cannabis.com.

Here are some links relating to my group's (Temporal Photonics) work on developing PAD (Photosynthetic Artificial Darkness) for Cannabis.

24/12
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30203

PAD ( RAUBER promises to consult )
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33717

4/20 ( MOTHER's PAD Beta Test Backup archive thread. )
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=33718


The thread that had a problem was at Cannabis.com:

First attempt at a 24-hour "Martian Method"
http://boards.cannabis.com/grow-log/165934-first-attempt-24-hour-martian-method.html

There was an initial thread that I posted on at Cannabis.com called the Perfect LED Grow Light, but it seems that the entire thread has been lost. Hopefully not, and I'll post a link to it here if it comes back, but it's not even showing up on Google's cache'd pages at the moment.

Take Care, Sal.

salmayo
02-05-2009, 03:30 PM
Wanted to add these two links in here as well, since they are shat got our PAD public disclosures rolling:

(PAD) Origin of Discovery Post Announcement
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14056&page=6

PFLOVERS original Origin of Discovery disclosure post, 8th September 2006 05:04 AM at www.treatingyourself.com (in post #41 PFLOVER disclosed some information I had discussed with her on my earlier 660nm LED growing work.)
http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=14056&page=5

gioiapura
10-16-2009, 06:03 AM
I really missing the martian night's tales.....any news about it Salmayo?
Halloween is coming soon and i'm really curious.......come on!

Shawn Rauber
11-18-2009, 11:03 PM
I really missing the martian night's tales.....any news about it Salmayo?
Halloween is coming soon and i'm really curious.......come on!

Quit Right G.

We had a delay or two, but will be posting soon.

Till then:

"Rauber Enhancement is the response between two saturating spectrum durations that occur within ninety minutes of each other, where the responses are based on each time duration, rather than a response to an intermediate combination of the spectrum based on the wattages of the two spectrums." (from chapter 3 of “Photosynthetic Articifial Darkness, Rauber Enhancement, and Rauber Enhanced PAD. 1st Edition AKA: The PAD Manual. Copyrighted 2009 Shawn Rauber)

rocket_science
11-19-2009, 02:13 PM
Hi Shaun - maybe we're in the wrong thread for this - but your
Temporal Photonics ideas seem f'n amazing, I've just proved to myself that light movers work, and want to understand more about the best timing and frequency exposures to lights to maximise growth whie minimising energy expenditure - like LEDs but perhaps flashing, on movers, with sequenced colours.

Start a thread and tell us more.
PM me and I'll buy a free book from you.

Cheers,
RS

Okay sorry I read the rest of the posts and found the links...

Shawn Rauber
11-21-2009, 06:06 PM
Hi Shaun - maybe we're in the wrong thread for this - but your
Temporal Photonics ideas seem f'n amazing, I've just proved to myself that light movers work, and want to understand more about the best timing and frequency exposures to lights to maximise growth whie minimising energy expenditure - like LEDs but perhaps flashing, on movers, with sequenced colours.

Start a thread and tell us more.
PM me and I'll buy a free book from you.

Cheers,
RS

Okay sorry I read the rest of the posts and found the links...

We do plan on making open access to all senior TY members on our MySpace users support page now under construction for updates, support, and questions. We also plan on donating 10% of all profits to TY sponcership.

TP's VP TY member Salmayo (Sal Mavorus) will be archiving more information into the threads listed above in this thread. I'll have Sal bump the threads up for you sooner, just to make sure you're finding everything.

Rickkus
03-18-2010, 09:23 PM
Here's one:

http://www.treatingyourself.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=41771

growboy
05-05-2010, 11:50 AM
Ok.. finally finished reading the posts from Sal, mother & gang on canibus.com and their grows. MM etc.. MM try #2

One thing I think is missing is an accurate measurement of output of different lighting sources. Not just output but that is part of the calculation. At the moment it seems that people are using a variety of lighting sources including LED's from god knows which company using which chipset and what encapsulation material which may reduce wavelength output of UV etc.. additionally different chipsets produce different spectrum's. That said.. for white lights an efficiency rating for photosynthetic reaction, and absorption must be calculated. Some refer to PAR but that is a term that far too many toss around. Each is unique to the manufacturer. Your light calcualtions are based I think.. on the trial and error calculations you, yourself have calculated for each light.

I think it would benefit the growing community to address these trial and error calculations by doing a study with a set parameter. Chipset etc.. etc.. although chipsets change in power they rarely change wavelength or overall efficiency. Provided you use the same chipset manufacturer and encapsulation media.

Mother's lights for the MM#1 & MM#2 were a very old type of LED from at least 2 years ago from the looks of it. Since the technology changes at such a fast pace (usually every 6 months). I will attempt to standardize some things here in my head.

At the moment we have been talking about "Blue Light" in PAL, then a period of SID (Regular Darkness), and then a mixture of near and far red in PAD.

Looking at the photosynthetic action spectrum which has been scientifically calculated by several Universities for standard hemp plants, tomatoes & hops the peaks are at roughly 440nm and 660nm respectively.

Thing is, currently the most "blue" output in the 460nm level is not produced by a "blue" LED but rather a "white" LED. For instance the 12000k Cree 1w LED produces 99lm while the 460nm produces 18lm .. now as we know that white spectrum is over a vast number of wavelengths. Now with mathematics software the volume of any point under the graph (between any wavelength span) can be calculated and then divided by total area (to give a percentage of volume compared with total output and then multiplied by the lm output of the LED. In this manner.. although white light is all spectrum the white Cree is actually still has nearly 2X the blue content output as a blue LED.

For regular growing cycle. I wonder what effect a white LED would have on these calculations?

krazyken
06-22-2010, 09:17 PM
I am glad peeps are waking up to LED's, but you should also check out electromagnetic induction lamps. They are more efficient than LED's! IMO
http://www.advanced-hydroponics.ca/lighting.php

It is my business in Ontario.

Ken

Green Acres
07-08-2012, 05:01 PM
wished the led makers would start being truthfull and say the comparisn to hid bulbs is in red and blue colour only and not outputs/penetrations...like cfl`s did when they came out with their missleading false info comparisons

Grand Pa smurf
07-08-2012, 08:37 PM
lol there's apparently a new kind of flouro tube out there ppl are trying to sell too.
Nvr do have the answer to why am I gonna spend as much on power for a fraction of the useable light intensity.
Meh, be nice when something usefull finally does come out at an equally affordable price as hid's but till than it's best to wait for a couple reviews from credible people.
Oh well as is any place that's a market I suppose.
Always be scammers around we just have to beware as buyers is all I guess.

cheers,........................................... ..................gps

chillzpls
07-12-2012, 04:58 PM
wished the led makers would start being truthfull and say the comparisn to hid bulbs is in red and blue colour only and not outputs/penetrations...like cfl`s did when they came out with their missleading false info comparisons

It was red and blue only, and still is for some but most have learned they've had to expand on that now... and many of those don't go about it at all intelligently. When you see them trying to fill out the rest of the spectrum with as many individual bands as possible, just laugh in their face. There's only a select few colour bands that LED's can do efficiently as most R&D has gone into the blue spectrum, specifically because it's used with phosphorous conversion to produce white LED's for room lighting, which is seen as their primary market.

Red and blue only is a carry over from NASA research which is clearly geared to maximum possible efficiency, because that's obviously their primary requirement, with perhaps surviving a lunch as a close second. Yield wasn't such a concern. Yield requires high irradiance, which is basic physics/biology/chemistry and there is no magic around that, despite the numerous business models promising otherwise.

At the higher levels of irradiance that yield requires, the plant uses the light quite differently. Most of those products come from China and they're produced for the sole purpose of production. They couldn't give a fuck less if they actually work or not. So long as marketing is sufficient to fool people into buying them, they won't be forced to improve them much beyond that.

Their current manufacturing methods are not even sufficient to extract the level of performance achievable by the latest LED's at all reliably. That's okay though because they'd much rather sell you 10X the amount of a much cheaper LED.

As per how they compare to HID... it's far worse than the typical CFL comparison. Say for example you had 100X 10W LED's. They would run them at about 1W each, drawing a total 100W for the LED's plus a few more for the power supply. They would advertise that as a "1000W equivalent". That's part of the joke. The other part is when they give a free sample to a sponsored tester, who is going to sell it at a discount after just one or two runs before getting another new freebie to test, and they crank the LED output up an extra watt or two, drastically borrowing from their lifespan as it is related to operating temperature. They'll still work afterwards but their output will be greatly diminished and any buyer will be totally ignorant.

The induction lamps are a similar joke but for their own reasons. Nothing more than glorified fluorescents poorly implemented, basically attempting to shoehorn an unwanted technology into an existing and extremely gullible market.


Any buyer swears by them of course but you have the proud papa with new expensive toy syndrome, where no popcorn nug is an ugly baby.

If you want to learn about LED lighting look for postings by KNNA, which are from an engineering perspective and probably the single best resource, even though it's somewhat dated and from a perspective of maximum efficiency which is somewhat wrong, as he later mentioned himself.

1Joint
07-23-2012, 06:54 PM
LED.S are Junk and anyone I know who has used them has been taken for a ride. You want quality an quantity than you need to use wattage M.H or H.P.S. Use the LED,s for light therapy on your brain and save money so you won't need a to pay for a shrink. And yes I am a grower. If they worked I would be using them now. I do have some $2000.00 seeds to use for your LED lights if you want to buy some. Happy vapors to you all.

Shadimar
07-23-2012, 07:09 PM
Personally, I add LEDs to the sides of HPS, not to increase yield so much as to increase the trichome production.

I've gotten tip-top quality bud from a few straight LED grows however I eventually decided to turn my sodium back on and opt for a combination approach.

All in all though, a person's opinion of LEDs and their performance is going to depend largely on what brand and manufacturer their units were sourced from as some just pick the cheapest reddish and blueish diodes they can find.

One day they'll get it sorted.. one day.

420grower
07-23-2012, 08:04 PM
there have been full L.E.D. grows here some with great results,some not so great,I guess I won't mention that I am a full floro grower,lol,peace